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In case, you have not seen it, here is the evidence on just how bogus that test is. Interestingly, in that thread, Simon said:I guess he must not have been talking avout ASICS[/quote]

I was talking about ASICS... and we do have a much better system... but.. unfortunately, sometimes the wheels grind exceedingly slowly, and that is why I am not anly going bald.. I am going white!
All I can do is just continue to plug away for truth, justice and the podiarty arena way...
s

Simon:

But Alfred E. Newman always said "What me worry?!"

__________________
Sincerely,

Kevin

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Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College

e-mail: kevinakirby@comcast.net

Private Practice:
107 Scripps Drive, Suite 200
Sacramento, CA 95825 USA
My location

Voice: (916) 925-8111 Fax: (916) 925-8136
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Hi all, finally we have worked out another version of our article on pronation, we'd like to have you guys cast an expert eye on it and tell us what you think.

We've had alot of difficulty trying to find a good word for a person who has a pronation pattern that is neither overpronation or underpronation/supination, but who exhibitis an optimal amount of pronation.

In the article a person with this type of pattern is called a "neutral pronator" but we feel this still off the mark. Any suggestions are welcome.


The text of the article is shown below, the images are missing but they will illustrate the foot angle during stride for each type of pronation:


"Pronation is the way the foot rolls inward when you walk and run. It is part of the natural movement that helps the lower leg deal with shock. Some people pronate more (overpronation) or less (underpronation) than others. Though this is not bad in itself, it does affect the way you run and it may increase the likelihood of injury. This makes your pronation pattern an important factor in choosing the right running shoes.

Pronation
Pronation occurs at the joint below the ankle, the subtalar joint. It describes the inward rolling motion of the foot just after it lands on the ground. This moment is called initial contact, which is part of the stance phase of the gait cycle. Learn more about the phases of gait in How We Run: The Gait Cycle.

When you walk or run, pronation helps to attenuate the shock of initial contact. Without it, the full impact of each step would be transmitted up the leg and affect the normal mechanics of the lower limbs. Besides acting as a shock absorber, pronation also helps the foot “recognize” what type of ground it is on by stabilizing and adjusting the foot to the terrain type.

Running shoes are designed today specifically for different pronation patterns. When you pick your next pair of running shoes, your pronation type is a very important factor in your choice.

The best way to find out how you pronate is to consult an expert, who will perform a Gait Analysis and then advise you on the best type of running shoes for your pronation pattern. Many experts will ask to see your old pair of trainers, as their wear pattern gives an indication of the way you pronate. Of course, other factors than pronation, such as weight, also play a role in choosing the best shoe.

(Pronation pattern of a neutral runner image)

You are likely to “neutral pronator” if the soles of your shoes show wear in an S-shaped pattern, from the outer (lateral) heel to the big toe. When you have a normal pronation pattern you can run in a wide variety of shoes, but specialised neutral running shoes offering cushioning and support are most suitable. The GEL-NIMBUS is leading cushioning model for neutral runners.

Underpronation
Underpronation, also known as supination, is when the foot doesn't pronate much. The outer or lateral side of the heel hits the ground at an increased angle, and little or no normal pronation occurs, resulting in a large transmission of shock through the lower leg. This lateral loading of the foot continues for the entire stance phase of gait, further affecting running efficiency.

(Underpronation (also known as supination)image)

Underpronators are likely to have excessive wear on the outer heel of their shoes, and the entire upper may be pushed over to the lateral side.

As underpronators tend to be susceptible to shock-related injuries like stress fractures, you should choose a neutral running shoe with plenty of cushioning, for example the GEL-CUMULUS . The extra cushioning will lessen the impact of landing the legs have to endure when running. Underpronators should avoid shoes with dual density midsoles, such as DuoMax, since they tend to exaggerate the problem.

Overpronation
Overpronation is when the foot rolls in excessively, or at a time when it should not, for instance late in the stance phase of gait. In this case much weight is transferred to the inner or medial side of the foot, and as the runner moves forward the load is borne by the inner edge rather than the ball of the foot. This destabilises the foot, which will attempt to regain stability by compensating for the inward movement. In a kind of chain reaction, this in turn affects the biomechanical efficiency of the leg, especially the knee and hip.

(Overpronation image)

The shoes of an overpronator will show extra wear on the inside of the heel and under the ball of the foot, especially the big toe.

Overpronators should consider choosing maximum support or structured cushioning shoes. Structured cushioning shoes provide a degree of stability and cushioning, whereas maximum support shoes are the most stable shoes you can get. Running shoes in both of these categories will help your feet distribute the impact of running more effectively. The GEL-KAYANO is a leading structured cushioning shoe, whereas the GEL-EVOLUTION is reliable model in the maximum support category.

Acknowledgements: This article has been written under the guidance of Brice Newton, Product Marketing Manager Footwear at ASICS Europe and Simon Bartold, ASICS International Research Coordinator."


End of article.

Hi there,

Thanks for the article.

From the first paragraph:

To me the use of the terms 'overpronation' and 'underpronation' should be removed completely. This terminology still suggests (to the public) that there is an 'ideal' amount of pronation... maybe there is but we dont know that yet and if you can't define 'normal pronation' (which we can't) then how can you, by definition, state what is 'too much' or 'too little'? Perhaps much better off just saying we all pronate differing amounts to each other, and also differing amounts during differing activities?

I'm not sure the research agrees entirely with this...

__________________
My location

So.....

For gait is there a minimum amount of STJ eversion required in degrees? Is this a 'it depends' issue as well (Terrain, shod or not, STJ axis etc etc)

Anyone?

Thanks,
R

Hi R the short answer for the minimum amount of pronation required at the STJ during weightbearing is as you though - depends.

As activity changes the amount of pronation required will also be different and the ability of the body to regulate this andor have the ability to regulate this is where pathology may begin.

ie where does the STJ pronation come from, muscle contraction of the Peronials Longus and OR Brevis this is more easily controlled by the body.

If however the STJ pronation moment is comming from the ground reaction force is maybe much more difficult to regulate the amount of pronation.

I hope that makes sense.

__________________
Michael Weber

The most common thing about common sense is it´s not very common.

My location

Its activity dependent. If you walk in straight line your whole life, you probably only need a few degrees; however if you turn a corner, you probably need a few more; if you are an Olympic level high jumper, you probably need 50-60 degrees of eversion..... there is no normal.

__________________
Craig Payne
Department of Podiatry
La Trobe University
Melbourne, Australia
http://www.latrobe.edu.au/podiatry
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God put me on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things - right now I am so far behind, I will never die.
The views expressed above are those of the author and not that of La Trobe University
This is where I am, where are you?

When I was at the podiatry college, I had a student who had about 25 degrees of STJ motion on one foot and less than 5 on the other foot. That 5 degrees could have easily been at the ankle. This is all the clinical signs of a tarsal coalition. No radiographic studies available. He played intercollegiate sports and never had any problems with his feet. That's not to say that he wont have problems later, maybe, but he got around just fine without an STJ for quite some time. You can acheive "gait" with a peg leg. The question is, is there an increased stress somewhere else. We will tend to see the painful coalitions. We don't know how many symptomless coalitions are out there.

Regards,

Eric