Podiatry Arena members do not see these ads

Does anyone know of any specific courses, either in Australia or overseas, that are designed to provide podiatrists with training in acupuncture?

My colleague in the practice is highly interested in learning podiatric applications for this therapy, but does not want to learn about acupuncture for treating migraines and tennis elbow (ie a full post grad Masters or similar).

Anybody have experience in this area? I do know of some courses run in the UK or USA, but not if they are open to international attendees.

Many thanks

LL

Tweet

Share

Hi Lucky,

My training Co is organising one Acupuncture for Podiatrists Course this year in the UK. Overseas delegates are very welcome to attend, but be advised that the Course will be in two parts, with 3 months between them.

We think end of June/beginning of July (depends on external specialist lecturer time).

Happy to let you have the details when finalised.
Cheers,
davidh

Dr Anthony campbell runs an excellent 3/4 day course for Pods in the UK.
He teaches all over Europe, so you might see his name there as well.

From a personal standpoint, I have found very good results using periosteal techniques for degenerative joint disease of the knee, ankle and hallux.

In some jurisdictions, podiatrists are not allowed to use acupucnture as a modality. For example, my enquiry in the State of Victoria got the following reply:

"Podiatry wasn't included in the drafting of the
CMR"(Chinese Medicine Registration)" Act because the professional association & the Podiatrists
Registration Board at the time saw no need for such powers & chose not to be included." I was told that using acupuncture as a podiatrist could "leave you vulnerable to prosecution."

So, before taking a class or using acupuncture, be sure it is legal where you work. Anyway, if pods in Victoria want to use acupuncture they must work to change the law, apprently.

Using other "trigger point" therapies give good results in podiatry such as "fascial zone therapy" . While acupuncture is an excellent therapy, other physical podiatry therapies are useful.

Good luck

Chinaworld,

The CMR act and the new HP act prevents the use of the title acupuncturist, by Victorian podiatrist unless they are also registered by the Chinese
Medicine Registration Board of Victoria. But this does not impact on the practice of podiatry in Victoria. ie; if competant, they can practice acupuncture of the feet, but can't use the title, or describe it in advertising

The new HP act (2005) will have some amendments made to it before it comes into force on July 1 2007, (probably Autum 2007) so it may be worth lobbying the A.Pod.A. to lobby the Gov for this change, if it is deemed neccassary.

It would be a small amendment having the Pod Board included as a Responsible board in section 28(3)

Below are a couple of extracts from the HP Reg Act 2005

__________________
Stephen Tucker
Calvary Health Care

My location

Dr paul Coneelly alias MUSMED runs lower limb acupuncture courses in australia. He would be able to help I am sure. I think he has a cousre coming up in september. maybe if you private message him he can give you more details.

There is a Dr in London who runs Podiatric courses on regular basis, see the feetforlife.org website, it should be on there. A friend of mine has done the course, and has had excellent results in treating plantar fasciitis, and some diabetic pain and restless legs. It seems to be great. Was hoping there would be a course similar in Australia, but they all seem to be year long courses. The UK one is 2 days then you have a few months to do a case study, then a day to report back. It seems very good.

That is Dr Campbell in London. As in my previous post on this topic, it is an excellent course, which gives you a relevant clinical skill in treating symptoms especially to those employed in lower limb musculoskeletal fields.

I can recommend this course to most Podiatrists, as it has expanded my treatment regime esp. for those tricky to manage cases, eg ankle arthrosis.

Dear Tukcersm, Thanks for the explaination of the law. It would be safer if podiatrists were included in the law, to avoid any confusion.
Good to know there is a chance for inclusion and for the Board to assure standards. Then there would be no question on "competence".

I would be happy to help in this process, since I have done podiatric and full body acupuncture since 1988 .

TCMOO Distance Training Platform was set up by China Beijing International Acupuncture Training Center (CBIATC) based on 34-year face to face traditional Chinese medicine and acupuncture training experience, which aims at providing high-quality online TCM and acupuncture education services for overseas students. The curriculum design covers the main subjects of TCM and acupuncture, CBIATC experts guide the students interactively online during the learning period. At the same time, TCMOO provides many online video coursewares for advanced studies which focus on experts’ lectures, clinical practice, special Chinese medical courses, and analysis of TCM classics, etc.. After completing the selected courses within a given period of time, the students can obtain the appropriate education credits and the certificates issued by China Academy of Chinese Medical Sciences.

I'll stir the water here -

Why do we, as podiatrists, the same ones that constantly bleat about the encroachment on our 'occupational territory' by others (i.e. foot-carers, nurses, chiros, physio's et al) think that it is OK to do a short course on acupuncture and feel that we have any semblance of real world competence in the modality. We are all horrified, for example, when a patient brings in some shoddy ineffectual orthoses dispensed from the local chiropractor who has no tangible training in biomechanics.
A friend of mine has five years of acupuncture training at UWS, eight under-study trips to China, and 10+years of experience in her given field. You can imagine what she has to say about every unqualified man and his dog fumbling along in her game.
We expect referrals from all and sundry regarding foot related matters. Should we not be referring people to properly trained acupuncturists and set the same standards as we expect for ourselves??

Chris Williams

Whilst I take your point about professional boundaries, I think it is important to note the distinction between the different types of acupuncture and how they are administered.

The 'traditional' system is based on the ancient Chinese understanding of health & illness, and is part of an overall philosphy/set of beliefs. In order to practice that type of acupuncture, one must take the time to learn the whole system, and also learn the background philosophy.

There is another type of acupuncture, which is practised by those of us with a background in modern/Western medicine. The people who wish to practise this type of acupuncture acknowledge the possible benefits of needling, but do not see the need to convert their practice from one based on modern medical science. If we do this, we turn our back on methods and paradigms that we trust. Rather, we seek to offer an additional, alternative intervention.

When I undertook a short acupuncture course I was not hoping to become an acupuncturist. I had specific aims in mind - mainly to be able to offer a drug-free alternative for patients with pain. I do not needle traditional acupuncture points necessarily, and I do not 'stimulate' the needles in the traditional way. I also do not offer a detailed explanation as to how acupuncture works (when it works) - I'm honest with patients in terms of our lack of understanding of the physiological processes involved.

If a patient wishes to undergo acupuncture as a means to address their ill-health I would tell them every time to seek out an appropriately-trained individual. If they come to me with chronic tendonitis, I may well use acupuncture as part of my management plan (in conjunction with other interventions).

If we apply that logic, we'd never advise our patients to take analgesics (isn't that the job of the pharmacist or medic), prescribe orthoses (orthotists do that don't they?), recommend an exercise programme (that's an physio thing) or refer for podiatric surgery (definitely orthopaedics' territory)...

Hi LL,

Acupuncture and Podiatry are thrown together alot these days. I am both Podiatrists and Qualified Acupuncturist. Have used both together for the past eight years. I would be happy to share what I know with your collegue or send information. There is one book in particular that is quite useful.

Regards,
AnneMarie (silver shadow)

Hi Lucky,

I was just browsing after placing the notice for the following workshop onto Podiatry Arena, so have pasted it below. I have designed this workshop as a practicing Podiatrist to provide what is required both in theory and practice to 'use' acupuncture in the treatment of conditions commonly presented to Podiatrists. I have been teaching this material for a few years in Australia.
Dr Conneely needs no introduction and by adding his expertise in 'dry needling' we have created a comprehensive leap into using this modality.


]The first UK Practical Acupuncture for Podiatrists Workshop is now open for registration and the first registration has come through!

This workshop will be conducted at the University of East London on February 1,2,3.

It will be presented by Dr Paul Conneely and Shane Toohey and has been certified by the Society for Acupuncture Certification for the participants.

Places in the workshop are limited due to the practical nature of the workshop where participants will work in pairs.

For more information and registration please go to http://www.artisanorthoticlab.com.au

Dr Conneely has over 20 years experience in the use of dry needling and is a medical doctor with a Masters in Musculoskeletal Medicine and Post Grad dip in Pain Management. Shane Toohey has been using acupuncture in the treatment of podiatric conditions since 1991 and has a Post Grad Dip in Acupuncture.

The workshop is designed for you to immediately use the techniques taught as soon as you leave the workshop.

Earlybird registration closes on 11/12/2009 and is 610GBP.
Standard registration is 660 GBP.

This may be an option that suits the parameters you mentioned in your query.

Cheers
Shane

__________________
Shane Toohey

Hi Chris,

Now that I have thoroughly gone through all the responses on this thread, I thought that I'd also like to add a response to your comments below.

I have taught that part of acupuncture that is useful to Podiatrists in the treatment of conditions commonly presented to them. Sometimes the various acupuncture techniques are supplementary to improve final outcomes, sometimes they replace existing treatments and sometimes they offer a treatment where none previously existed. I have been a qualified acupuncturist myself since 1991 and a Podiatrist for 10 years longer. I am really well aware of what is useful and what is not for pods in the use of these techniques.
I have trained almost 300 pods around Australia and they are all quite clear that they are not acupuncturists but podiatrists who use some acupuncture techniques in the treatment of the conditions that they are normally treating.
With this attitude and the results that they achieve they have a far greater appreciation of the power of acupuncture and now will more commonly refer on to an acupucturist whereas before they never would have.

So this as my foirst point. Podiatrists using acupuncture are overall promoting the modality. Indeed their patients are also possibly more likely to seek acupuncture as another alternative for other chronic problems.
Secondly, TCM is the most commonly known form of acupuncture but there are other schools of practice right down to what is called Western Medical Acupuncture where the traditional points and styles are most commonly not used.
So TCM does not equal acuppuncture, it is a traditional form with a theory that predates science and therefor does not fit at all into our understanding. Nevertheless, there is a huge body of human experience embedded into it and there can be fantastic results from its use that we may in the future ascribe to 'stimulation of pathways in the nervous system' rather than 'balancing the enrgy between the kidney and liver channels' for example. TCM practitioners obviously find it difficult to see a scientific perspective because they are working in a sytenm that gives them results and therefore the system must be 'true'. Finally, on this point I wish to emphasis that I have great respect for TCM practitioners.

Next I'd also like to point out that I think I usually achieve quick and effective results with acupuncture because as a Podiatrist I am combining it with my other podiatric skills in biomechanics and and manual therapies.
Pods may also be accused of crossing over the boundaries of dermatology to use a silly example or other medical and surgical boundaries and that is the nature of our focus on a part of the body. I think that is one of the great and exciting bonuses of our profession.

So, thanks Chris for giving me this opportunity to express myself on these matters which are fair and common game and do need addressing.

Cheers
Shane

__________________
Shane Toohey

Hi All,

Some really interesting points put across. What I was interested in here is the issue of professional boundaries. I'm a fan of acupuncture, of which the clinical benefits I am not doubting - just how we work within the blurred framework of interdisciplinary boundaries. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Chris

Below is an extract from the Part B National Registration Bill, recently passed by the Qld Parliament. This will require all podiatrists who uses the title "accupuncturist" to be endorsed by the Podiatry Board of Australia prior to July 1st 2010. This is consistent with the current practice in Victoria, though at this stage the Podiatry Board of Australia is NOT seeking Ministerial council approval to develop such an endorsement in its Consultation paper on registration standards and related matters p23. So if you believe that this is important respond to the discussion paper, highlighting your concerns.

__________________
Stephen Tucker
Calvary Health Care

My location

Stephen this would also apply to all health professionals wouldn't it not just those that fall under the Podiatry Board of Australia? There are several GP's in my area who promote themselves and their clinics as General Practice including Acupuncture.

From my reading of the Act yes, though there may be an expemtion for medical practicioners somewhere (there is for endorsement for prescribing)

__________________
Stephen Tucker
Calvary Health Care

My location

Hi Chris,
You wrote

It seems to me that many of us become stand alone practitioners working away in a niche we have created for ourselves.
My practice which is in a sports clinic has really become a lower limb chronic pain clinic and I'm simply combining my mechanical interventions with manual therapies and acupuncture. That is all I do. The general public are fine about different Podiatrists practicing in different ways. See him for your nails and him for your heel pain.
I've done what interested me. So as long as I'm clear about what I can do as an individual. I'm really happy to refer to other pods who treat problems that I don't touch.
I really appreciate you replying as well and giving me the opportunity to think about these things.

Cheers
Shane

__________________
Shane Toohey

Hi Stephen,

Thank you very much for being on the ball and bringing this information onto the forum.

I'm trying to uunderstand what this means.
At present I am in discussion with the only organisation in Australia that provides a post grad dip in acupuncture. With this diploma the recipient will be accepted into membership of an acupuncture association that is recognized by many of our health funds (with certain conditions including continuing ed etc) so that one can be given an 'Acupuncturist" provider number.
Podiatrists do not have to get this diploma to 'use' acupuncture in the treatment of podiatric conditions but can I think call themselves an acupuncturist.
The diploma contains 10 units including extensive training in TCM and usually takes 2.5 years part-time (one night per week)

Are you saying that as a podiatrist I can only call myself an acupuncturist as well if I apply to the Board before 1/7/2010?
Who do I write to about this?

Cheers
Shane

__________________
Shane Toohey

Shane,

Once Chinese Medicine is nationally registered in 2012, I believe that people will be able to apply directly to that board to use the title (as this is the current acse in Victoria), but it is not clear what the process and restrictions will be for other Health Professionals prior to that date. It is just dissapointing that The Australian Podiatry Board is not considering requesting this endorsement.

__________________
Stephen Tucker
Calvary Health Care

My location

Hi Stephen,

Again you wrote,
Below is one of the submissions I wrtote to the Board.
The first was much longer and I thought needed more argument.
Have I addresses one of the issues? Please point me specifically to points that you think need addressing.

__________________
Shane Toohey

Hi All,

As both passionate acupuncturist and podiatrist may I suggest these books for further reading on acupuncture. The first one is by far the easiest and best for beginners. Great pictures of "Ashi" points or trigger points.

Close to the Bone: The Treatment of Musculo-Skeletal Disorder with Acupuncture & Other Traditional Chinese Medicine
LEGGE David

Foot Acupuncture Therapy
ZHAO Xin

Micro-Acupuncture in Practice
WANG Yajuan

Available at:
CHINA BOOKS (Melbourne)
2nd Floor, 234 Swanston Street,
Melbourne, Victoria 3000
Phone (03) 9663 8822/Int. Phone +613 9663 8822


Just my humble opinion: the more knowledge we have, the better we become at helping patients achieve the results they desire. Acupressure is sometimes as effective as actual acupuncture- there is nothing (legal or otherwise- to my knowledge) stopping you from trialling this. Laser acupuncture is also quite well received by patients whom are needle shy, is there any legal, ethical or moral dilemma stopping a podiatrist from using laser acupuncture to treat conditions that warrant it?

Perhaps LaTrobe Uni can run an introductory course in conjunction with one of the great acupuncture schools or colleges in melbourne? Perhaps LaTrobe Uni can look at including a subject in the podiatry degree that explains and introduces other therapies: acupuncture, osteopathy, reflexology etc- and have actual practitioners come in and talk about their modality. Just an idea......

If anyone has any queries pls email me.