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I'm so glad you said this...you should all be playing a proper sport...like rugby!
As Simon alluded to before though, there are now advantages in all sports dependent on the kit that is used. Look at the Tour de France - get all of the cyclists riding Raleigh Chopper's - then we'll see who's King of the Mountains!
Don't worry, I'm not about to start championing the church of Barefoot running - but if you want a fair race, then barefoot it is......
As Simon alluded to before though, there are now advantages in all sports dependent on the kit that is used. Look at the Tour de France - get all of the cyclists riding Raleigh Chopper's - then we'll see who's King of the Mountains!D
I'd say the biggest advantage most cyclists in the tour have is the cocktail of as yet undetectable performance enhancing drugs they take...allegedly...
If you think Pistorius gets good air time, check this out. This is my 3 year old daughter Camilla doing "painting on the prom" last week. Sorry, a bit off topic again
__________________
I see you girls checkin' out my trunks
I see you girls checkin' out the front of my trunks
I see you girls lookin' at my junk, then checkin' out my rump, then back to my sugarlumps
The Following User Says Thank You to RobinP For This Useful Post:
I was one of the developers of the carbon prosthetics as used by Oscar Pistorius, working then for Ossur. We have another device in the pipe line which we are currently working on, with one of the top 5 F1 teams, using there software simulations and testing rigs.
All looking wicked and hope I could say more!
South African Oscar Pistorius will become the first athlete to bridge the gap between ''disabled'' and ''able-bodied'' athletes when he competes head-to-head against the fastest men in the world in a World Athletics Championships event
Sport24 are reporting: Oscar still subject of debate
Quote:
While South African athlete Oscar Pistorius attempts to become the first amputee runner to compete at the Olympic Games, scientists are still arguing whether his artificial limbs give him a critical advantage or not
Oscar Pistorius has been selected to run in both the individual 400 meters and the 4x400-meter relay at the London Olympics and is set to become the first amputee track athlete to compete at any games.
In a surprising last-minute decision Wednesday, South Africa's Olympic committee and national track federation cleared the double amputee to run in his individual event. The Olympic committee earlier announced that Pistorius had been picked only for the relay.
If he does win a medal, then a ****storm will break loose in the media and scientific community about how the research evidence that shows he truly has an unfair biomechanical advantage versus the other able-bodied runners was suppressed due to legal and political considerations only. The only way this race would be fair, would be for his "blades" to be the same mass as the other runner's legs. This will probably only become a point with the media if he wins a medal.
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
If he does win a medal, then a ****storm will break loose in the media and scientific community about how the research evidence that shows he truly has an unfair biomechanical advantage versus the other able-bodied runners was suppressed due to legal and political considerations only. The only way this race would be fair, would be for his "blades" to be the same mass as the other runner's legs. This will probably only become a point with the media if he wins a medal.
I honesty doubt that he will win a medal. I do believe the blades offer an unfair advantage in terms of mass also, and I presume he'll have their spring characteristics tuned to match the track too.
As I said back in 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Spooner
If he wins his appeal, we may some very different designs of running shoes at the next olympics.
I should be interested to see how this opens the door to the use of springs in competitive running footwear... think Spira http://www.spira.com/ or even..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1O1YaD-Gpw think we might see a few new world records, not least in the high jump.
Its a difficult one. A double amputee wants to run in the 'main' olympics. On the surface that sounds like a noble request that should be granted. On the other hand, his spring loaded artificial limbs means (if I recall coreectly) that he only as to expend 30% of the energy of an able bodied running to achieve the same. Unfortunatly, I agree he should be banned.
The next challenge with the development of this technology, what will become of the para-olympics? Will they become tests of ability or tests of the size of the bank balance to develop these 'blades'?
If you look at the mechanics of acceleration from starting in blocks using blades versus the mechanical advantage of having a normal skeletal system below the knee in the able bodied, this far outweighs any advantage gained through having a lighter lower limb. Oscar Pistorious' world records are seconds slower than the able bodied. If he had an unfair advantage his records would be faster. It is an amazing story and he deserves his chance to compete with the able bodied.
Carl
If you look at the mechanics of acceleration from starting in blocks using blades versus the mechanical advantage of having a normal skeletal system below the knee in the able bodied, this far outweighs any advantage gained through having a lighter lower limb. Oscar Pistorious' world records are seconds slower than the able bodied. If he had an unfair advantage his records would be faster. It is an amazing story and he deserves his chance to compete with the able bodied.
Carl
No disrespect intended to Oscar Pistorious, but he could be a mediocre athlete who is able to run as fast as he does because of the mechanical advantage ... or not
If you look at the mechanics of acceleration from starting in blocks using blades versus the mechanical advantage of having a normal skeletal system below the knee in the able bodied, this far outweighs any advantage gained through having a lighter lower limb. Oscar Pistorious' world records are seconds slower than the able bodied. If he had an unfair advantage his records would be faster. It is an amazing story and he deserves his chance to compete with the able bodied.
Carl
You are wrong, Carl.
It has been demonstrated quite clearly through scientific analysis that Oscar Pistorius has an unfair advantage over able-bodied athletes since the mass of his "blades" (i.e. moment of inertia) is so much less than his able-bodied competitors that his "swing time" (i.e. time spent moving the limb from posterior to anterior in the air) is far shorter than any of the world's best runners. This makes his running far more metabolically efficient than any runner in history who has normal legs.
Yes, Pistorius has an amazing story. Yes, Pistorius deserves our praise for doing what no one has done before. However, Pistorius should not be allowed to run in the Olympics against able-bodied athletes due to his unfair mechanical advantage with his current "blades". The only reason Pistorius is running in the Olympics is because the scientific information that clearly showed his "blades" gave him an unfair mechanical advantage was not considered properly in making the decision to allow him to be an Olympic competitor or not.
You can read more about the legal-political-scientific fiasco of how Pistorius got to run in the Olympics this year at the Science of Sports website.
I'll definitely be watching his race and I hope he gets a medal. The media will be on this in an instant and the fur will be flying for months to come when the truth finally becomes widely known as to how his unfair advantage wasn't considered properly in allowing him to compete with the able-bodied runners. Can't wait!!
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
Hi Kevin
Certainly he does have a considerable advantage in reduced mass and swing time. The question is whether this advantage outweighs the disadvantage of reduced acceleration out of the blocks. In the paralympics he competes at 100, 200 and 400 meters. In the olympics only at 400 because he has the distance to make up for his early disadvantage.
How do you measure this advantage vs disadvantage I don't know but I'm glad he's there and we're asking the questions!
I'm backing Dai Green anyway!!
Best wishes
Carl
Hi Kevin
Certainly he does have a considerable advantage in reduced mass and swing time. The question is whether this advantage outweighs the disadvantage of reduced acceleration out of the blocks. In the paralympics he competes at 100, 200 and 400 meters. In the olympics only at 400 because he has the distance to make up for his early disadvantage.
How do you measure this advantage vs disadvantage I don't know but I'm glad he's there and we're asking the questions!
I'm backing Dai Green anyway!!
Best wishes
Carl
Carl:
My guess is that, without his "blades", Oscar Pistorius would not qualify to run even in the Olympic 400 meter trials for his country, let alone run in the Olympics themselves. In addition, without his "blades" he would not be competing in the Paralympics either. In fact, Pistorius would be probably just another of the hundreds of thousands of good runners, not quite elite enough to make it to the Olympics or make it even to the Olympic trials. He would instead be one of the hundreds of thousands of good runners who would be watching the Olympics on the television, like most of the rest of us will be doing.
Therefore, I don't really consider Pistorius to be unfortunate other than he had a congenital defect that has greatly affected his life. Rather, I view, that in many ways, he is very fortunate in that his congenital defect, along with some amazing modern scientific brace technology that is very expensive and can't be financially afforded by many amputees, along with his obvious hard work, is going to allow him to compete in the Olympic Games, something that I also worked very, very hard for over many years, but was not able to accomplish. Still, I do admire Oscar's guts and determination. However, I find the whole process of how his lawyers got him into the Olympics, even though the scientific research clearly showed he has an unfair mechanical advantage versus his able-bodied competitors, to be a rather shady spectacle that has a bad taste to it.
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
Lets see what funky designs of "shoes" the able bodied start wearing now...
I just thought, with a pair of blades attached to my legs I'd stand at about 8 feet tall- My teenage dream of breaking the high jump world record may come true after all.
Aloha Simon,
You could try a pair of Kingetics Simple Spring Machine Advanced Composite Orthotics on for a spin or Fosbury Flop.
A Hui Hou,
Steve
Kingetics- Making Your Life's Work Less Work...TM
IAAF
The objective results of this study are that:
- Pistorius was able to run with his prosthetic blades at the same speed as the able-bodied sprinters with about 25% less energy expenditure. As soon as a given speed is reached, running with the prosthetics needs less additional energy than running with natural limbs.
- Once the physiological potential of Oscar Pistorius and the able-bodied control athletes had been estimated, using three different methods, it is clear that Pistorius’ potential was not higher than that of the controls, even though their performance results were similar.
- The biomechanical analysis demonstrated major differences in the sprint mechanics used by a below-knee amputee using prosthetics when compared to athletes with natural legs. The maximum vertical ground reaction forces and the vertical impulses are different in a highly significant way and the amount of energy return of the prosthetic blade have never been reported for a human muscle driven ankle joint in sprint running.
- The positive work, or returned energy, from the prosthetic blade is close to three times higher than with the human ankle joint in maximum sprinting.
- The energy loss in the prosthetic blade was measured at 9.3% during the stance phase while the average energy loss in the ankle joint of the able bodied control athletes was measured at 41.4%. This means that the mechanical advantage of the blade in relation to the healthy ankle joint of an able bodied athlete is higher than 30%.
If you have ever seen me shred the waves while wearing a pair or our orthotics in wrestling shoes you could call me a major Kook too.
A Hui Hou,
Steve
Kingetics- Enlightening Your Load...TM
It wasn't a compliment. If we ever see a pair of your orthotics in any form other than a drawing on a patent that will be akin to walking on water, viz. a miracle.
If you have ever seen me shred the waves while wearing a pair or our orthotics in wrestling shoes you could call me a major Kook too.
A Hui Hou,
Steve
Kingetics- Enlightening Your Load...TM
Steve:
What do you and Dennis Shavelson and Ed Glaser all have in common?......you are all podiatrists that can't seem to post here to Podiatry Arena without also making sure that you continually discuss and advertise the products you have a financial interest in.
Podiatry Arena is not for continual advertising of your product...it is about discussion of scientific knowledge. Your continual promos for your product are getting very old here and that is the reason you get the responses you seem to generate from your posts. I suggest it is either time for you to reconsider why you are here or, better yet, simply move on to where your continual unsuccessful attempts to advertise your products will be greeted with more interest.
None of us are interested either in your products or any more of your goofy, childish trademarked sayings that you seem to need to include at the end of all your postings. These trademarked sayings are just the icing on the ill-tasting cake that you have been providing us with here since you first started posting to Podiatry Arena. It is too bad that you can't see this for yourself since these idiotic sayings really are annoying and, I believe, further alienate many of us from even wanting to engage in discussing these ideas with you.
Have a nice day.
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
If Simon can have his white flags i can have my corny sayings and Tagging Lines...TM
The Spring Orthotic Patent is waiting for your deeper understanding and professional and knowledgeable rebuttle of the mechanics therein.
Mahalo,
Steve
Kingetics- Loving True Actions...TM
Yeah, Steve, but that doesn't give you the right to hijack another thread for the sole purpose of advertising your product!!
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
We recognize your senior status on this web site and your long history of adding content to it.
I have responded to Simon's statement that he would like to see what new technology comes from using advanced composites in orthotics and his wish to high jump 8 feet.
I humbly would recommend the Jumping Springs that you have previously posted on this web site for that event.
We are trying to get you to think about the mechanics of our new technology more than trying to get you to buy a pair of the fastest lightest safest orthotics.
I am sorry that my creative and semi-comical and commercial slogans distract you from the important task at hand, understanding and refuting (or supporting) the mechanics we have proposed...
Mahalo,
Dr. Steven King
ASTM F13 Committee Voting Member
APMA and HPMA Member
Co-Principal Investigator SBIR A11-109 US Dept. of Defense
ACPSM Member
SCPM Grad 1996
We recognize your senior status on this web site and your long history of adding content to it.
I have responded to Simon's statement that he would like to see what new technology comes from using advanced composites in orthotics and his wish to high jump 8 feet.
I humbly would recommend the Jumping Springs that you have previously posted on this web site for that event.
We are trying to get you to think about the mechanics of our new technology more than trying to get you to buy a pair of the fastest lightest safest orthotics.
I am sorry that my creative and semi-comical and commercial slogans distract you from the important task at hand, understanding and refuting (or supporting) the mechanics we have proposed...
Mahalo,
Dr. Steven King
ASTM F13 Committee Voting Member
APMA and HPMA Member
Co-Principal Investigator SBIR A11-109 US Dept. of Defense
ACPSM Member
SCPM Grad 1996
Yawn.
For the record, I didn't make any statement about using composites in orthotics in this thread. Dr. King is clearly lying in order to justify his continued promotion of his patent here. Not only is he shamelessly attempting to plug a product, he's now resorted to lying about me in order to continue this.
It's boring Steven. We have discussed you patent here already some months ago. You've had your "15 minutes". If it didn't turn out as you'd hoped, then that's just too bad. Move on and discuss something else, or just move on.
You just can't seem to help yourself though, can you?:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Steven King
We are trying to get you to think about the mechanics of our new technology more than trying to get you to buy a pair of the fastest lightest safest orthotics.
Nosism not withstanding, your statement here is just utter cobblers too and there are laws against making such a statement as part of advertising, here in the UK at least. Can you say any old cack in US commercials without any come back? Indeed, by making such statements you might find yourself open to a class action law suit, as Vibram have recently discovered. Thinking about it, it should be possible for legal action to be taken against you for each and every one of your trade marked advertising slogans....hmmm. That might not sit too comfortable in the future should your orthotics ever get beyond the drawing board. To me, you come across like someone on the shopping channels rather than an ethical practitioner who holds the title "Doctor of Podiatric Medicine".
Simon Says,"Lets see what funky designs of "shoes" the able bodied start wearing now...
I just thought, with a pair of blades attached to my legs I'd stand at about 8 feet tall- My teenage dream of breaking the high jump world record may come true after all. "
Now lets talk about advanced composites in the Olympics and in our soldiers boots and not about vulger and hateful you tube videos.
I confess I haven't read through all this thread... but for what it's worth, I came across the following quote from Albert Einstein...
Anyway, at the moment I have really sore calf muscles from a hard training bout (a couple of days ago it was even sore to walk). This has certainly affected this week’s training (running) - particularly speed work & most definitely a race (if I had one to do)... particularly a shorter race i.e. a track race... in spikes... say over 400m to 5000m...
... would Oscar not have to deal with such an issue? (If not fatigue related &/or biomechanical factors which could adversely influence performance).
All the best for Oscar! ... but there are some certain physiological/biomechanical differences... & I can also see the sensitivity/emotion of the subject.
Simon Says,"Lets see what funky designs of "shoes" the able bodied start wearing now...
I just thought, with a pair of blades attached to my legs I'd stand at about 8 feet tall- My teenage dream of breaking the high jump world record may come true after all. "
Now lets talk about advanced composites in the Olympics and in our soldiers boots and not about vulger and hateful you tube videos.
A Hui Hou,
Steve
Kingetics- Building Beautiful Gaits...TM
Steven:
Let's stick to the thread...not continually advertise a product here on an academic website meant for foot health professionals all for your financial gain.
You really don't get it, do you, Steven?! We don't want you continually butting into good threads to somehow find a way to show that your insole product is something worthwhile. It's not all about you and your product, Steven. Can you just take a step back and see what you are doing here...it is killing your credibility.
If you want to talk about your product, then start a new thread and tell us all about it and quit butting into good threads with your corny (supposedly trademarked) slogans and with your continual reference to how good your product supposedly is.
This one thing may help you regain some respect here on Podiatry Arena. As for me at this point, I have lost just about all my respect for you by the way you are promoting yourself and your product here.
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
Re: Blade runner (Oscar Pistorius)
Re: Blade runner (Oscar Pistorius)
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