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Simon. In a number of your video clips you broke with the convention, which appeared to be establising itself in this thread, by introducing clips of melalin rich athletes.

That encouraged me to look at the list of current track world records. To say that melalin rich is over represented is an understatement. Surely such unfairness cannot be allowed to continue?

I have two suggestions. The first is positive discrimination for the melalin poor, which could take the form of giving starts, based upon the quantity of melalin in the skin or secondly recognising that melalin rich athletes are so superior that the only way the melalin poor can have a bite of the cherry is too give them a cherry of their own, ie a melalin rich olympic games for the superior and a melalin challenged olympics for the uggh less superior?

Lead balloon time?

Get set.

Bill

Or just pick an event that your genotype / phenotype might give you the advantage. Failing that, go visit the chemists to alter you phenotype...

__________________
Who? What? When? Why? Yeah? And? So? What?

"My mission drive is to open up my eyes, 'cause the wicked lies and all the sh!te you say..." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4NW5S1UTPQ

"Science is the antidote to the poison of enthusiasm and superstition."

I have a sneaking suspicion that I could be wasting my time responding to you Bill, because going by the following reply - you simple don't get it!

As subjective the above is, let me remind you again that this thread is titled... "Great Olympic Moments in UK Track and Field". It doesn't warrant you bitching about drugs in sport/athletics & referring to those who do enjoy the Olympics & love Track & Field / running as "delusional", just because there happens to be a history of drugs. Now as far as your above comment... in light of the subject matter, I can certainly understand if others were to then post about non UK athletes who also have made for great Olympic moments... this is what would be suitable - not someone harping on about the drugs. We know about it... let’s move on.

No - just for troll like posting to be rebuked for when it occurs. Your post of #8, 11, 15, (I'll let 30 slip) & 31 (absolute moronic reference to the colour of athletes) are all troll like in nature! Devoid of any value to the subject matter (i.e. negative & inciting conflict).

I see... reminiscing of past Olympic moments is "founded on delusion" . It really must be quite sad being as cynical as you are. Come on Bill... snap out of it - life’s not that bad dude! You must resonate with that Rolling Stones song – Paint It Black.

NO... we are not coming from the same place at all. I'm an optimist on the subject - you're a pessimist. I am not taking my feelings out on you because I have been affected by drugs in sport. I stated quite clearly to you why I addressed your previous posts... whinging about drugs in sport within this thread. Hey, why don't you start a thread of your own? Let me help you:
- Drugs in sport - one whinging poms perspective.
- The delusion of sport - athletes & the Olympics.

I can see where you’re coming from but here is not the place to express it. Yes, I have competed against runners who have taken stuff - they are called "cheats" (just to use one polite word)... they know it, I know it (you know it). If they can still get satisfaction from their results & still feel good about themselves well so be it. However, various sport organisations are serious about drugs within their sport & they are doing the best (I hope) they can to eradicate it. Things have certainly improved since the fall of the Berlin Wall. I am confident that the issue of clean sport will continue to improve because whilst some may feel that the drug developers are a step ahead of the drug researchers/testers, the samples of athlete’s fluids are now being stored so when a new drug is eventually discovered (which may also include files on the recipients of the drug) then past samples will be retested & the athlete subsequently dealt with (as with Marion Jones from the 2000 Olympics).

As frustrating it has been, I am not going to allow this aspect tarnish my love & enjoyment of a sport. Frankly, I would much rather be a professional runner than a Podiatrist at this point in time.

I would like to think the above is in jest... yet still troll like (bordering on racial taunts). It would stand to reason that a thread discussing UK Olympic athletes would include athletes with sparser melanin. Yet Daley Thompson was cited in the first post. UK’s Sebastian Coe’s 800m world record of 1.41.73 set in 1981 lasted about 16 years before a Kenyan born Danish runner Wilson Kipketer broke it in 1997 (1.41.11), and then Kenyan David Rudisha broke it in 2010 with a 1.41.01. Seb certainly deserves a mention... & it doesn’t matter what skin colour they are. Speaking of which (the 800m)... here is another race from the 1972 Munich Olympics. Another great race, with an unexpected result. Check out the athlete running in a golf cap ...



Got to laugh at the commentators remarks... "On behalf of all the skinny guys in America, I like to congratulate him" . Watching stuff like this is far better (inspiring) that watching the degree of rubbish present on T.V.

Remember Bill, look on the brighter side of life .

__________________
- alias: Matthew Thomas - Podiatrist.
Back On Track Podiatry.

"To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift": Steve Prefontaine.

Mathew:

You know how loud I was yelling and cheering for Dave Wottle when he came from behind and won that race in 1972??....and with a baseball cap on no less??!! These were epic performances from him and Frank Shorter in the marathon that year. These two gold medalists from USA certainly gave me plenty of inspiration to train harder to try to greatly improve my times the following cross-country and track seasons as a junior in high school.

In addition, I would suspect that the "distance running boom" that occurred in the USA during the 1970's was largely due to both Dave Wottle's gold medal in the 800 m and Frank Shorter's gold medal in the marathon from that 1972 Olympics. They were certainly important catalysts for me and many of my running friends of the time.

And, Mathew, I agree totally with your comments to Bill. When a cynic calls a whole group of people delusional, does it mean anything? Not really....it is just the cynic venting in the hopes that he or she will convince others to dwell along with them in their world of negativity.

__________________
Sincerely,

Kevin

**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College

e-mail: kevinakirby@comcast.net

Private Practice:
107 Scripps Drive, Suite 200
Sacramento, CA 95825 USA
My location

Voice: (916) 925-8111 Fax: (916) 925-8136
**************************************************

Only my 2p worth. For me it isn't about track or field events or any of the medal winners. For me (& many, many more) it is about this My view is also not popular. Although I have the greatest admiration for those who aspire & inspire. The UK hosting the 2012 Olympics is not unlike buying a mink coat when you have no food to feed your children. My medal goes to the guy carrying the torch.

__________________
:)
twirly

Mandy Brooks
Brooks Podiatry
S64 0DE

Suffering a fondness for odd things.

“ Though the mills of God grind slowly;
Yet they grind exceeding small;
Though with patience he stands waiting,
With exactness grinds he all. ”

But, if we liken the UK hosting the olympics to a prostitute touting his/ her wears, then perhaps the mink coat will help with trade and help to feed the children? Just a thought.

__________________
Who? What? When? Why? Yeah? And? So? What?

"My mission drive is to open up my eyes, 'cause the wicked lies and all the sh!te you say..." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4NW5S1UTPQ

"Science is the antidote to the poison of enthusiasm and superstition."

Depends upon if one was to be whoring in London as slim pickings elsewhere I understand. Scant picking in these parts m'dear.

__________________
:)
twirly

Mandy Brooks
Brooks Podiatry
S64 0DE

Suffering a fondness for odd things.

“ Though the mills of God grind slowly;
Yet they grind exceeding small;
Though with patience he stands waiting,
With exactness grinds he all. ”

True, I don't expect to see much impact here in Plymouth. But you should know by now that the "village" AKA "that London" = UK. Have you seen BBC's breakfast since they moved "up north"? The presenters look like they are bricking it on a daily basis and they appear to be recording in a cupboard to prevent the windows being stoned in. You can take the presenters out of London...... but they still look like London types. Obviously, Steph McGovern who does the business is exempt. She must be in training- she appears to be getting fitter ;-)

__________________
Who? What? When? Why? Yeah? And? So? What?

"My mission drive is to open up my eyes, 'cause the wicked lies and all the sh!te you say..." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4NW5S1UTPQ

"Science is the antidote to the poison of enthusiasm and superstition."

Hi Kevin,
Sorry to be out of context but I have 2 questions for you. Are you working (receive money) from Asics? Do you really see 25-30 patient per day?

Give a big thanks to Simon B for the big promotion of my course in UK... very happy to be so important to his eyes

"Dear Mr. DuBois,

I am a Chartered Physiotherapist working in my own private clinic with several colleagues in both medicine and physiotherapy and until last Friday I had never heard of you. This situation changed when I attended a lecture given by Simon Bartold who spent 25 minutes criticising you in a very angry manner. What caught my attention was how he started his tirade; he told the assembled podiatrists and physiotherapists that he had made a “Bull****-o-meter” and had attached the leads of this to your gonads (!) via wires that he had run up along your legs. He then used his power point slides to quote some of your statements regarding sports footwear along with the displays of his bull****-o-meter showing at the bottom of the slides. It turns out that Simon Barthold works for the Asics Shoe Company.

Now, I have my own ideas regarding sports shoes and I may not agree with all of your ideas or anybody else’s ideas but I will engage in respectful debate on the subject where possible. What I listened to last Friday was disrespectful, crude, slanderous and unprofessional. You were the subject of the slander. The lecture that I attended was part of a 2 day event that was held in Manchester in England. The event was well run but I was amazed to hear this man speak with such bias and anger. ...

What was more interesting was the reaction from Kevin Kirby – he became quite animated and clearly angry and guess what?? – It turns out that he also does some work for Asics Shoe Company. Clearly I had hit a nerve and was vehemently put down as being “uneducated and incapable of listening”!!

I have always respected professionals and their opinions – even if I disagree with them. I have maintained my professional independence and have not sold out to patronage. Kevin Kirby is not a man to argue with. He told us that he sees 25 to 30 patients per day, makes corrections to several sets of orthotics during the day. One assumes that he takes food and toilet breaks so he must work at a phenomenal rate and has to be respected for that and the level of experience that one would gain from seeing 25 to 30 patients each day. Too bad that one cannot discuss ideas with him but it may be that he is just too busy......."

Blaise:

On my full days, I generally see between 25-32 patients a day. I don't really see a big deal about this since many other podiatrists in the United States have equally busy schedules. Yes, I am busy, but this is because I have worked very hard over the last 27 years to get my practice to that level. And, yes, I do take a 1.5 hour lunch break and have 1-2 cups of coffee during my full days that run from 8:30 AM to 5:00 PM.

In addition, I have never and currently do not work for any shoe companies and don't receive any compensation, monetary or otherwise, from any shoe companies, including Asics. This physiotherapist is making up stories about me and what occurred at Biomechanics Summer School in Manchester last weekend from what I can tell.

And as far as this physiotherapist that wrote your posting, he was one of the most rude and arrogant people I have ever come across in a big meeting such as this. He asked a question during a Q & A session of all the lecturers from the morning on the first day of the seminar where, during his statement to us (not much of a question from someone who was supposed to be asking a question) he basically accused Asics of hurting people because many of his patients were buying Asics shoes and he felt Asics was ultimately responsible for them buying, what he called, "the wrong shoes". He somehow placed no blame on the patient-customer and/or the shoe shop for being responsible for the customer purchasing, what he considered, "the wrong shoe". He somehow implied that Asics was forcing the customer to buy their shoes!

I became a little bit heated at this man because he only accused Asics, and no other shoe company of somehow forcing people to buy the incorrect shoes, which seemed to be picking on Simon Bartold. Simon had clearly stated during his earlier lectures that he worked for Asics but did not advertise Asics shoes to any extent that I saw. Even worse, when I tried to answer this physiotherapist's question during the Q & A session, he kept butting in, interrupting my answer to his question. This is when I told him that he needed to let me answer his question and to quit interrupting our answers to his question by blurting out in the middle of our answers. Trevor Prior, Joe Hamill and Simon Bartold also provided answers to him. When he kept arguing with us, I told him, "Didn't you listen to anything that was said in the lectures this morning?!" I don't think he liked that comment, but, due to his rude behavior to all of us on the panel, and his statements that were contrary to everything we had lectured on that morning, I believe my comment was justified.

He was definitely out to pick a fight, and in all of the hundreds of seminars I have attended over the past 25+ years, this physiotherapist displayed one of the worst examples of unprofessional behavior that I have ever seen at a seminar. It was unfortunate to have someone like this, acting like a spoiled child, in an audience of an otherwise excellent scientific seminar.

After that question and answer session (what they called "Ask the Stars") for the lecturers, I had at least 5 separate people who also attended the seminar come up to me and apologize for the way this physiotherapist (who supposedly practices in Ireland) behaved during our question and answer session.

Blaise, you may tell this person that if he wants to come onto Podiatry Arena and somehow justify his false accusations of me, that I work for Asics and that I couldn't possibly see 25-30 patients a day, then I will be happy to answer him in public.

__________________
Sincerely,

Kevin

**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College

e-mail: kevinakirby@comcast.net

Private Practice:
107 Scripps Drive, Suite 200
Sacramento, CA 95825 USA
My location

Voice: (916) 925-8111 Fax: (916) 925-8136
**************************************************

Before anyone else does the math, that's between 13.1 and 16.8 minutes per patient, not allowing for the coffee brakes. "Some days I'm quick, but most days I'm speedy" To put it into perspective: back in the day, NHS patients were allocated 20 minute slots; hence it's not that impressive, Kevin

Funnily enough, although I didn't attend this meeting I'd already heard about this particular individual about 10 minutes after he'd made his statement and attempted to have a "pop" at Bartold. Ain't modern media great? You get at least one at every conference.

When are you speaking in the UK, Blaise? Maybe I could be the one at yours?

That said, having read the .pdf for Simon Bartold's lecture, it does come across as a personal vendetta against Blaise and doesn't really address the title of the presentation at all, in my humble opinion- just an observation, Simon. But hey, I wasn't there so how do I know what was said?

__________________
Who? What? When? Why? Yeah? And? So? What?

"My mission drive is to open up my eyes, 'cause the wicked lies and all the sh!te you say..." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4NW5S1UTPQ

"Science is the antidote to the poison of enthusiasm and superstition."

'nuff said.

No fair, Kirby deleted his post!

__________________
Who? What? When? Why? Yeah? And? So? What?

"My mission drive is to open up my eyes, 'cause the wicked lies and all the sh!te you say..." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4NW5S1UTPQ

"Science is the antidote to the poison of enthusiasm and superstition."

Here is Blaise's video where he interjects his opinions into Simon's presentation in this YouTube video. I think there is some history between the two.

__________________
Sincerely,

Kevin

**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College

e-mail: kevinakirby@comcast.net

Private Practice:
107 Scripps Drive, Suite 200
Sacramento, CA 95825 USA
My location

Voice: (916) 925-8111 Fax: (916) 925-8136
**************************************************

No doubt.
Anyway: Ex. 21:23, 24; Lev. 24:19, 20; Deut. 19:21 etc. Let 'em have it as the scriptures demand.

__________________
Who? What? When? Why? Yeah? And? So? What?

"My mission drive is to open up my eyes, 'cause the wicked lies and all the sh!te you say..." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4NW5S1UTPQ

"Science is the antidote to the poison of enthusiasm and superstition."

Simon:

Ian Griffiths seems to know who the physiotherapist who made the rude comments to us at BSS in Manchester. Maybe Ian could provide an impartial opinion of what really happened at BSS with the "rude physiotherapist" and the rest of us on the panel discussion.

__________________
Sincerely,

Kevin

**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College

e-mail: kevinakirby@comcast.net

Private Practice:
107 Scripps Drive, Suite 200
Sacramento, CA 95825 USA
My location

Voice: (916) 925-8111 Fax: (916) 925-8136
**************************************************

I've already spoken with Ian and others regarding this. But go ahead, Griff... I just read the .pdf to accompany the lecture and I'm expressing my opinion based on this, and this alone.

__________________
Who? What? When? Why? Yeah? And? So? What?

"My mission drive is to open up my eyes, 'cause the wicked lies and all the sh!te you say..." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4NW5S1UTPQ

"Science is the antidote to the poison of enthusiasm and superstition."

I may be grumpy and old, but I can still be quick when I need to....

Attached Images

Grumpy Old Man.jpg (116.5 KB, 73 views)

__________________
Sincerely,

Kevin

**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College

e-mail: kevinakirby@comcast.net

Private Practice:
107 Scripps Drive, Suite 200
Sacramento, CA 95825 USA
My location

Voice: (916) 925-8111 Fax: (916) 925-8136
**************************************************

Thanks a lot for all your precisions.
How was the presentation of Simon Bartold?

Blaise

Hi Simon,
I feel well with critics... it make me evolve.
The course is open. It would be a pleasure to discuss with you in the course or outside of the course around a beer.
My personal email : blaisedubois@me.com and my cel 418.953.8555
https://secure.therunningclinic.ca/e...n-o.php?id=197
Blaise

Blaise:

I thought that Simon gave a set of very good talks. In fact, all of the lectures I heard at the seminar were excellent. Joe Hamill especially did a great job of bringing his lectures on his latest barefoot running research to a clinical level that, I believe, were some of the best lectures of the seminar.

__________________
Sincerely,

Kevin

**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College

e-mail: kevinakirby@comcast.net

Private Practice:
107 Scripps Drive, Suite 200
Sacramento, CA 95825 USA
My location

Voice: (916) 925-8111 Fax: (916) 925-8136
**************************************************

I have no doubt about Joe Hamill... But the one I saw from Simon Bartold was not very consistent (see the video on you post above)... seems that this one was not more consistent? Wait you opinion of speaker and scientist... not friend.

blaise

Blaise:

As a clinician and scientist, I thought Simon Bartold presented informative lectures. I don't always agree with Simon since we did have some disagreements both during the lectures and in private, but, as usual, Simon's lectures were all interesting and thought-provoking.

In addition I believe that most in the audience felt the same as I did about Simon's lectures...except, or course, for the physiotherapist that wrote you that letter that claimed that I worked for Asics. This should tell you, Blaise, just how credible this physiotherapist is when he makes false accusations about me without even a shred of evidence to justify his claims. I don't even run in Asics shoes....I'm running in Hoka One One shoes and walking in Adidas shoes currently.

__________________
Sincerely,

Kevin

**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College

e-mail: kevinakirby@comcast.net

Private Practice:
107 Scripps Drive, Suite 200
Sacramento, CA 95825 USA
My location

Voice: (916) 925-8111 Fax: (916) 925-8136
**************************************************

Why do you want to know Blaise.. are you keen to get me on your team for your next lecture series? You could do with a little variation to your theme, and I am always available!

The title got changed after the pdf was printed unfortunately.. it seems the average punter is still not prepared to listen to a discussion on torques, moments, forces and acceleration. I do have the presentation all ready to go though..!

btw.. what was you excuse for not attending? I felt sure you would be there creating a ruckus!

I should also like to go on record stating that Dr. Kevin Kirby is not, and never has been under the employ of the global body of ASICS or any of her subsidiaries including ASICS America Corporation. He is far too argumentative and grumpy!! That physio did not listen to a word that was spoken.. I really wonder why he was there!

You run away last time in your own country. I'm in for any debate. I speak about a real one... a scientific one. Not just blasted liberman, McDougall, me and every person that doesn't eat ASICS food. I speak about a consistent and rigorous speech with content. Can you do that? I never see that... but maybe I don't know this side of yourself?

My BUL****-O-METER explode... please stop

He didn't know me before your pseudo-lecture

Do you really know who is he? just tell his name and I will tell you what say my bul**** detector

Like all the time I saw you...

I'm curious, how much ASICS support you when you say that Asics shoes prevent injuries? Is a presentation like this one was supported by ASICS?

If the PDF is informative, it will be a pleasure to read it... someone can send me it?

I answered many time... Kevin answered to my question one time too... http://www.podiatrytoday.com/barefoo...ing-which-best (see bellow) but you never justify why beginners and child need big bulky shoes. NEVER. I just know, from you, that Asics shoes prevent injuries for everybody.



Answer from KK
You asked: "Is there science supporting the prescription of "modern" shoes with characteristics like (more than 9O z, stack more than 20 mm and drop more than 7mm: large majority of the running shoe on the market presently) for a BEGINNER or a CHILD."

Not to my knowledge.
I don't generally recommend traditional training flats (TTFs) for children due to their low body mass and more side to side activities in their play. Children seem to do well in thinner soled shoes such as racing flats for running and in thin soled athletic shoes for their everyday sports activities such as basketball, soccer, etc..
As for your second question why a 200 lb, flat footed, beginner runner that will be running on hard surfaces could not use a racing flat to run in, I would personally recommend a TTF rather than a minimalist shoe for this runner due to the runner's body weight and the runner's presumably pronated feet. There is no good scientific evidence for this choice other than treating 1,000s of runners over the past 27+ years with similar size and foot structure. In other words, my personal experience would lead me to recommend the TTF style of shoe, probably a "motion control" or "stability" shoe, but I have no research evidence to back up my personal recommendation.
Hope this now answers all your questions.
Cheers,
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM

Bored now.

__________________
Who? What? When? Why? Yeah? And? So? What?

"My mission drive is to open up my eyes, 'cause the wicked lies and all the sh!te you say..." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4NW5S1UTPQ

"Science is the antidote to the poison of enthusiasm and superstition."

Blaise.. get a grip.. for the last time.. I did not run away.. I was in the USA.. a meeting arrange before I even knew who you were... I am happy to be on your team to talk about whatever you wish.. any time I am available.. what is the fee.. of course if you are charging 650 a head i would expect to be paid..

Yes... now with that little episode behind us (I hope). Next time Blaise, please start a new thread - if that wasn't a hijack, I don't know what is.

With the London Olympics just round the corner now, I would like to see this thread as just - Great Olympic Moments In Track & Field (I've got some Aussies I want to show off .)

But first...
I can imagine you doing that Kevin - surely inspirational stuff. We need more of this stuff in our lives!

Now to some Australians - yet this next Olympic moment is somewhat similar to the Dave Wottle race. It is of the 1964 Tokyo Olympic 10 000m. Australian Ron Clarke was a multiple world record holder (17 world records ) & the then current world record holder for the 10 000m, & was the favourite for the race... but favourites don't always win...



Inspirational stuff. Interesting views about the power of the subconscious mind (I suppose somewhat related to Professor Noakes interesting Central Governor Theory). I remember when I was a young teenager watching a movie about Billy Mills on T.V. It was a great movie of someone coming from nowhere to become an Olympic Champion - testimony to the human spirit. I also remember the movie depicting some racial discrimination against Billy because he was a Native American (Indian). Would like to see that movie again. Anyway, I would consider Ron Clarke to be the greatest athlete never to win an Olympic Gold.

Next is of the 1960 Rome Olympic 1500m. Australian, Herb Elliot won in a new world record (3.35.6).
Bit of Australian humour also present...


Next is the 1968 Mexico City Olympic 800m. Australian Ralph Doubell won Gold - equalling the world record (1.44.3). A time which is still the Australian 800m record... I think Ralph is also the last male track Olympic gold medallist for Australia .



Great finishing kick. He was trained by Roger Bannister's ex coach (Franz Stampfl).

__________________
- alias: Matthew Thomas - Podiatrist.
Back On Track Podiatry.

"To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift": Steve Prefontaine.

hey Simon, just listened to an interview with Bubka and he said that Japanese scientists have analysed a couple of his clearances and came to the conclusion that if they were measured, they would have been around 6.27! not sure how they did it but considering no-one has got near 6.15 since, they definately wouldnt get near 6.27!

JB