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The BBC are reporting: Surgeons 'seek to protect title'
Quote:
A Royal College of Surgeons (RCS) poll of 2,000 people found 95% expect someone using the title "surgeon" to be medically qualified.
Quote:
Those who the RCS feels should not use the title include podiatric surgeons, who do not complete medical degrees but are trained in the surgical and non-surgical treatment of the foot.
Headline news on BBC Radio and featuring on news 24. Spokesman from the Institute defending the podiatry position..... SCP AWOL? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18828208
Just heard the 11 O Clock news on radio 2 and this topic has made it into the Public Domain.
Sadly the broadcaster is ignorant of her Latin and Greek origins of words. But that is a mistake most make as they go to the SHEMMIST and wear a Kemeeze.
The report was on the desire of the College of Surgeons to have the title of Surgeon protected by Law. Only those who do a MEDICAL DEGREE should be able to use the title of Surgeon.
Fat Chance as the world and his wife now use the Title Surgeon in many occupations. eg Tree Surgeon
Still it was reported that the SOCIETY OF SHURROPPODDISTS and PODEARTRISTS have supported the use of the title Podiatric Surgeon as those who are have attained the level of a Degree with The Surgical part being POST GRAD initially via America and today via Masters and PhD.
Still Dr's who do not have a PhD should be made to desist from using an honourary title for which they have not studied for and have not achieved.
I watched over my career of 25 years the introduction of Podiatric Surgeons into the NHS and its success on both the Surgical and financial outcomes for both the patient and taxpayer.
So obviously the College of Surgeons have now decided to deal with this irritation once and for all.
I support this as it will force the Medical Professions and Govt to decide what is what and by whom.
This could lead to complete closure of all health professions with the activity as well as title enshrined in law.
So if you are a Podiatrist with a PhD you are a Doctor of Podiatry.
If you are General Pratitioner with a B.Med and Post Grad in say Gynae but do not have a PhD then you cannot use the title of Doctor, but will use the title of General Practitioner.
This will be a mess and a financial disater for all parties. and I include the Tax paying Public and the Patients and the Medical Professions in this.
As an aside where will this leave all the unregulated pseudo health carers who are not HPC or other regulatory bodies controlled????
But i did listen to the 11 oclock news on radio 2 this morning and the SCP have issued a statement. Sadly the BBC reporter has trouble with the pronounciation of words of Greek and Latin derivation.
I have posted my own thread on this news item.
This battle could have major implications for all HEATH and SOCIAL CARE PROVIDERS.
Total wank-fest. You pays your money to the HPC to use a title - in our profession, regardless to whether you have trained to be such - so that they can watch over you (sort of) and take that 'privilege' away if you misbehave. Can't stop you practising though. And if your misbehaviour was bad enough, tough titty - on you go; just change your title. No ends to human creativity. Same with surgeon. Don't use the name boys; that's our privilege. We pays the money; it's our club. Doesn't mean a toss whether you're good enough or bad enough to warrant our concerns at what you do. Just don't use the name. Or else. When I think of podiatry uk plc right now I get a curious sense of what it must be like to be the girl in a menage a trois.
I missed this one from 2009 - still on the BBC website. Reassuring to note that the HPC are as helpful as ever to the general public regarding the podiatric profession.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBC News
BBC London has discovered that there are almost 80 "surgeons" operating in the NHS whose surgical qualifications are not recognised by any statutory body.
Podiatric Surgeons are chiropodists who go on to learn surgical techniques to operate on feet and ankles. But BBC London has learned that there is no independent body which accredits these training courses.
Furthermore, these surgeons do not have to be medical doctors, they usually hold a BSc in chiropody and a masters degree in the theory of podiatric surgery but as chiropodists they are not qualified to be admitted for traditional surgical training within the Royal College of Surgeons.
The employer is responsible for ensuring that they (podiatric surgeons) are competent to undertake the role and that patient safety is not compromised.
Department of Health
There are almost 80 "podiatric surgeons" working in NHS hospitals, some of them have even been awarded the title of Consultant, a situation which causes much confusion among patients who believe they're being operated on by medical doctors.
After years of playing sport Huw Foxall, from west London, developed a problem with his feet. He was diagnosed with hammer toes and a bunion and was referred to a podiatric surgeon.
After a long and gruelling operation, gangrene set in.
"The cast was taken off and the foot was a truly awful sight, it was absolutely black and blue. The chap in the plaster room who took it off said he'd never seen anything like it except when people had been mangled in some sort of industrial accident."
Mr Foxall had to have his big toe amputated and says he would never had agreed to the operation if he'd known the podiatric surgeon wasn't a qualified doctor.
'Ambitious chiropodists'
We contacted the Department of Health to ask why surgeons with unaccredited qualifications are permitted to operate in NHS hospitals.
They replied: "The Department of Health has previously expressed concern to the Society of Chiropodists and Podiatrists about the use of the term "surgeon" which is protected for healthcare professionals who have a medical qualification as recognised by the GMC for doctors."
In the early 1990s the Department of Health published a document called "Feet First" which promoted the idea of chiropodists with some surgical training performing procedures within teams.
It's common for chiropodists to do minor skin surgery - removing in-growing toenails and corns for example. But a group of ambitious chiropodists realised that there was nothing to prevent them from doing ever more complex surgery.
In a presentation called "Crossing Professional Boundaries" to the Society of Podiatrists and Chiropodists, one member of the society quoted a podiatric surgeon as saying:"We were fully aware at the time that there was nothing in law to stop us from doing bone surgery… and that loophole is what we used…it would be very difficult for the law of the land to stop you."
The Society of Chiropodists and Podiatrists established the Faculty of Podiatric Surgery as an educational establishment and the body chiropodists would apply to for training as a podiatric surgeon.
On its website the faculty says its qualifications are registered under the Health Professions Council. But when asked about this registration, the HPC told BBC London: "There isn't a specific podiatric surgery course on our accredited list."
Patient safety
The Society website also claims that a podiatric surgeon can apply for an NHS post after being awarded a fellowship at their own faculty of podiatric surgery, as well as the Royal College of Surgeons in Edinburgh.
But the RCS in Edinburgh told us that they don't have a single podiatric surgeon as a fellow, and yet there are 80 of these surgeons working in the NHS.
In contrast, a medical doctor training in England to become a surgeon would need to complete a training programme recognised by the Royal College of Surgeons, which in turn is overseen by the Post Graduate Medical Education Training Board - the statutory body responsible for all postgraduate medical training.
The Department of Health says: "The employer is responsible for ensuring that they (podiatric surgeons) are competent to undertake the role and that patient safety is not compromised."
If you've been affected by anything in this article, please contact the Health Professions Council on 0800 328 4218.
Total wank-fest. You pays your money to the HPC to use a title - in our profession, regardless to whether you have trained to be such - so that they can watch over you (sort of) and take that 'privilege' away if you misbehave. Can't stop you practising though. And if your misbehaviour was bad enough, tough titty - on you go; just change your title. No ends to human creativity. Same with surgeon. Don't use the name boys; that's our privilege. We pays the money; it's our club. Doesn't mean a toss whether you're good enough or bad enough to warrant our concerns at what you do. Just don't use the name. Or else. When I think of podiatry uk plc right now I get a curious sense of what it must be like to be the girl in a menage a trois.
There is much misunderstanding regarding the term 'surgeon' and some within the RCS delight in spreading misinformation, presumably to gain privilege and to gain a monopoly.
A previous attempt to claim sole use of the term resulted in a rebuke from the Privy Council:
From Privy Council to The Royal College of Surgeons of England 4th August 1993:
‘You refer to the College`s Royal Charter and to the responsibilities that you believe it to confer. The object specified in the Charter is in fact the promotion of the art of science of surgery and its study and practice. Whilst the supervision and maintenance of surgical practice are not of course inconsistent with this object, it is not immediately apparent that the Charter expressly charges the Royal College with these responsibilities’.
In legal terms this means that the Royal College can only be responsible for those who are its Members and Fellows.
They also said:
‘Under section 4 of the CPSM Act , the Board, the CPSM and the Privy Council have to be satisfied that a qualification will ensure that the holder has sufficient knowledge and skill to practice the profession in question’.
The only qualifications in Podiatric Surgery that met these criteria were Membership and Fellowship of the Podiatry Association.
Clearly the word surgeon is universal and provided its use is qualified eg. tree surgeon, podiatric surgeon, dental surgeon etc, its use cannot be prohibited unless used deliberately to mislead ie. a podiatric surgeon pretending to be a tree surgeon etc etc
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An Interesting article to bolster the publics' confidence in the medical profession and its grasp of foot and ankle surgery.
Foot and ankle surgery—The Achilles heel of medical students and doctorsOriginal Research Article
The Foot Volume 21, Issue 3, Pages 109-113 (September 2011)
John C. Kelly, Patrick J. Groarke, Eoin Flanagan, James Walsh, Michael M. Stephens
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The BBC are reporting: Surgeons 'seek to protect title' Full story
I hope that the Society is getting its opinion poll up and running with at least 3000 participants.
The response to the RCS opinion poll demonstrates the importance of the question asked.
The following question might have produced a totally different response.
Would you prefer your foot surgeons training to be totally dedicated to the foot?
As I read it the RCS case is based on the fact that the public are being misled as they didn't realise that podiatric surgeons are not medically qualified.
That's easily solved. Each podiatric surgeon provides a description of his training and surgical experience to each potential patient on or preferably before the first appointment. This maximises patient choice and answers the RCS concern.
Podiatric surgery need to play to its strengths and I'm sure it will do.
Bill
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I hope that the Society is getting its opinion poll up and running with at least 3000 participants.
The response to the RCS opinion poll demonstrates the importance of the question asked.
The following question might have produced a totally different response.
Would you prefer your foot surgeons training to be totally dedicated to the foot?
As I read it the RCS case is based on the fact that the public are being misled as they didn't realise that podiatric surgeons are not medically qualified.
That's easily solved. Each podiatric surgeon provides a description of his training and surgical experience to each potential patient on or preferably before the first appointment. This maximises patient choice and answers the RCS concern.
Podiatric surgery need to play to its strengths and I'm sure it will do.
Bill
Hi Bill
I understand that it is accepted practice for every podiatric surgeon (I'd stand corrected) to inform the patient in writing prior to surgery that they are not medical doctors. (I know that begs the question that most medically trained people are not doctors, but for the public it does make it clear). Believe me, if that was surmounted, the British Orthopaedic Foot Society would invent another issue.
Believe me, if that was surmounted, the British Orthopaedic Foot Society would invent another issue.
All the best
Bill
Medicine wants total dominance in what it sees as its property and that includes surgery. What's best for the patient is always going to come a poor second to what's best for medicine.
I think there is still a strong political will to prevent medicine from strengthening its dominance and hopefully even to weaken its dominant position even further but it is never going to roll over and give in. By the nature of the game medicine will continue to seek opportunities to test the water and push for dictatorship.
The reward for the in group are so great that they are never going to voluntarily let any other group share it, define it, dictate it.
Of course they will invent another issue and while you are looking in that direction they will be laying mines elsewhere.
Watch your back.
Bill
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RCS wants to protect 'surgeon' title
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