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The UK needs a united professional body
View Poll Results: The podiatry profession within the UK would be best represented by:
as I said your opinion and sniping against any professional body is meaningless on here because you are not a member with any voting rights
For the record, I am. I'm not sure why you think you know so much about me, nor where you are getting this mis-information from, Derek. To the best of my knowledge, I've never met you nor discussed my professional memberships with you.
For the record, I am. I'm not sure why you think you know so much about me, nor where you are getting this mis-information from, Derek. To the best of my knowledge, I've never met you nor discussed my professional memberships with you.
I dont think you have made any secret about it in the past....or perhaps I am getting confused with others ?
In any case if you are a member then you have the opportunity to make a constructive effort from within or .........
Cheers
D
"Political Correctness" is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end
I dont think you have made any secret about it in the past....or perhaps I am getting confused with others ?
In any case if you are a member then you have the opportunity to make a constructive effort from within or .........
Cheers
D
I think you might be confusing me with someone else. I have been a member of the society for many, many years. Whether I agree with their direction and policy is a different matter.
I think you might be confusing me with someone else. I have been a member of the society for many, many years. Whether I agree with their direction and policy is a different matter.
"Political Correctness" is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end
More often than not, the greatest barrier to change is ourselves. If podiatry was stronger and focused - not to mention more ambitious - then opposition from other groups would not be nearly as relevant as it is presently. It certainly seems that the profession is incapable of driving change for itself - instead it relies on the government and NHS to provide the training and regulatory framework - which is never going to meet our expectation or needs. How many subsidised schools do we have in the UK currently - 14 or 15? What happens if the NHS and government decides that is undesirable and unsustainable (and in my view both are applicable) - what happens to UK Podiatry? Who runs the "independent" schools?
Sometimes the epitome of professional governance and vision seems like a blind, deaf mute walking down a busy train track.....
So how are we doing with this poll so far, with rather weighted questions ?
72% want one united professional body, 28% don`t. Allowing for the fact that over 50% of viewers did not care to vote, it seems that about a third of viewers want one professional body representing 'the profession'. seems about par for the course.
Now I wonder what the figures would have been had the question offered separate bodies for Podiatry and Podiatric Surgery !
So how are we doing with this poll so far, with rather weighted questions ?
72% want one united professional body, 28% don`t. Allowing for the fact that over 50% of viewers did not care to vote, it seems that about a third of viewers want one professional body representing 'the profession'. seems about par for the course.
Now I wonder what the figures would have been had the question offered separate bodies for Podiatry and Podiatric Surgery !
The system registers a view each time you click on the page. For example, if you look at the page 50 times that's 50 views. Some of the people looking at the page won't vote because it has nothing to do with them, i.e. they are not from the UK; some of the people looking at the page won't vote because they don't want to; some of the people looking at the page have already voted. The questions are as unbiased as I could make them, I have a PhD but questionnaire design is not my cup of tea.
Me, I'd put podiatric surgeons within the same professional body as the rest of the podiatry profession, they are still just podiatrists after all, the same as everyone else. I wouldn't propose a separate professional body for those specialising in biomechanics, nor wound management etc. all of these individuals have usually undergone prolonged post-registration training; so why should podiatric surgery need a separate professional body? I always wondered why surgeons even got their own faculty within the Society to be honest.
It`s my view that if Podiatric Surgery remains subsumed in Podiatry it will not survive the trials and tribulations that undoubtedly lie ahead.
It will take tough individuals, en bloc, to ensure the profession progress's through to its appropriate place in the world of health provision. Whilst it remains a fraction of the organisation, development will be stunted for a number of reasons. Far better a smaller but united organisation.
Nine thousand plus Podiatrists won`t take risks on behalf of a few hundred, why should they ?
Unless there`s separation I would not be surprised if Podiatric Surgery has fizzled out in 10 years. The signs are there !
I take it that you do not believe that any of the professional bodies are capable then ? Which body are you currently aligned with ?
Capable - yes. Likely or probable - mmmm
Independent
So, you think podiatric surgery is more likely to survive within the UK through a series of "independent" practitioners than through the current professional body's?
So, you think podiatric surgery is more likely to survive within the UK through a series of "independent" practitioners than through the current professional body's ?
I am a little surprised at your answer. It has been the mutual suspicion and mistrust between the various factions that fosters disunity. Separation seems like segregation to me - and given your own experience with the Society I would have thought you would see the futility of such a scenario. Podiatric surgery is a natural specialty of podiatry - like biomechanics. Why the need for separate identity?
So, you think podiatric surgery is more likely to survive within the UK through a series of "independent" practitioners than through the current professional body's ?
No.
Yet, you choose to remain as an "independent". Ok.
The Podiatry Association (PA) was by far the toughest UK podiatry organisation I've seen in my professional life. Their primary purpose was surgical training, and they achieved this and the recognition of Pod Surgery within the NHS in a remarkably short space of time.
Ordinary Pods could join the PA as Associate Members - I was one.
There was much less BS floating around in those days.
I remember the opposition from the Society too. First to LA, then strengths of LA, then bone surgery.
Heady days!
I can't see how fragmenting the profession can help to strengthen it. For my money - single professional body. I would bring in FHPs/Podologists at a lower tier too - the more the merrier, and of course the bigger the fighting fund.
'So, you think podiatric surgery is more likely to survive within the UK through a series of "independent" practitioners than through the current professional body's' ?
No.
Yet, you choose to remain as an "independent". Ok.
Nor do I think it is more likely to survive with the current professional body (only time will tell)
David
'The Podiatry Association (PA) was by far the toughest UK podiatry organisation I've seen in my professional life'.
It was and I was privileged to be a member and know that all the advances made took enormous effort and unity; in spite of opposition from the Society. AGMs with 90% attendance and everyone with a voice.
Excuse my cynical belief that we're unlikely to see that sort of enthusiasm whilst being effectively neutered !
So, you think podiatric surgery is more likely to survive within the UK through a series of "independent" practitioners than through the current professional body's?
To which you answered:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosherville
No.
Which suggests that you think that podiatric surgery is more likely to survive in the UK through the current professional body's.
So I wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Spooner
Yet, you choose to remain as an "independent". Ok.
But then you respond:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosherville
Nor do I think it is more likely to survive with the current professional body (only time will tell)
So, you think it is more more likely to survive with the current professional body's than with independent practitioners, but you don't think it's more likely to survive with the current professional body's than with independent practitioners?
If I may be so bold, you think it is more likely to survive with a separate, independent body just for podiatric surgeons, don't you? I don't know your name? Why do you think the podiatry association joined with the Society? To what extent might an independent group of podiatric surgeons numbering a couple of hundred be able to lobby parliament and defend themselves against the desire by orthopaedic surgeons to rid themselves of podiatric surgeons presence?
It will take tough individuals, en bloc, to ensure the profession progress's through to its appropriate place in the world of health provision. Whilst it remains a fraction of the organisation, development will be stunted for a number of reasons. Far better a smaller but united organisation.
My mistake - I had assumed you were referring to the podiatry profession and its place within the NHS rather than Pod Surgery's place within podiatry. Ok. David mentioned the Podiatry Association. I too was an associate member and was quite enthusiastic about the potential development of the podiatric profession post graduation in the 1980s and 90s. I recall discussing what might be with one of my colleagues in Fife at the time - Howard Chapman - after I came back from lecturing in the USA in 1989 - and seeing how podiatry was structured Stateside. There were a couple of glaring weaknesses - the educational platform relied wholly on the NHS for its funding - major mistake - and the conflict between public and private care - and the impact such a scenario had on the body professional - i.e. us. There were intrinsic problems too - the divisions within the profession - at all levels and the reluctance to change. Thirty years on and we are still having to explain the chiropodist/podiatrist relationship on a regular basis and frustratingly, the divisions and weaknesses still remain!
What I envisaged was a different professional base in the UK - one centre of excellence - a British Podiatry Centre - encompassing an educational facility responsible for hosting and delivering undergraduate and postgraduate education for the entire profession, perhaps even alongside a British Foot and Ankle Hospital. This would be run by and on behalf of the Podiatry Profession through its membership organisation - perhaps a BPMA. A educational campus with a dedicated health facility and membership facilities. Initially - and naively - I thought this would be funded through the tax system but perhaps the passing of years has brought a realisation - or maybe cynicism - that this could not be possible or even desirable. It could still be achieved, of course, but to do so would require a great investment from all of us - not just monetary, but in committment at every level. But, John, you are quite correct in one respect - it does need driven en bloc from very tough individuals - across the entire professional spectrum.
Simon.
So, you think it is more more likely to survive with the current professional body's than with independent practitioners, but you don't think it's more likely to survive with the current professional body's
No, I don`t give it much of a chance either way.
If I may be so bold, you think it is more likely to survive with a separate, independent body just for podiatric surgeons, don't you?
Yes. previous post clearly explains reason for that view.
Why do you think the podiatry association joined with the Society ?
In the vain hope that it would take over the Society and use funds to further development !
In the vain hope that it would take over the Society and use funds to further development !
OK. A little defeatist though. Jason, I think it probably succeeded in that to a certain extent. After all, funds are still deployed for a separate faculty of surgery. However, I suspect the Society remembered where these surgeons had come from, even if some of them had seemingly forgotten for themselves. It also probably recognised that others within its membership had undertaken post-graduate study to become specialists in their own field too and that surgery was merely one specialist area of podiatric practice within many.
Why do you choose to be an independent, Jason Mason?
Why do you think the podiatry association joined with the Society ?
In the vain hope that it would take over the Society and use funds to further development !
I suspected that was the case for many years. May I ask, why? Did you feel that surgery would have the momentum to drive the profession forward on its own? Surely not?
The BMA has about 141,000 members. The number of podiatrists registered with the HPC is about 13,000 and they are represented by four professional bodies.
There is no doubt that choice is a good thing and in this case the more choice podiatrists have the better it is for the medical profession.
Simply (too simply), using numbers as an indicator of power, podiatry has little ability to oppose the will of medicine. Give podiatry four discordant voices and what little power the profession of podiatry had evaporates, making divide and conquer an effortless exercise.
Off course we have, over the last few decades seen how small relatively powerless groups can more effectively take on larger groups. It's called terrorism. But even here podiatry's professional terrist activities are turned inwards.
For some reason the in fighting within podiatry makes me think of a line from a Benny Hill song,' The Fastest Milkman in the West'.
'He went over to Ernie's cart and didn't half kick his 'orse'.
Maybe rather than thinking of the profession as a number of political parties each requiring a seperate representative voice it might be more useful to envisage the profession as a very small country at war with a significantly larger and better resourced country. To have any chance against the larger country, whatever the strategy employed, the small country has to unite to have any chance of victory.
Unfortunately podiatry's attempts at professionalism look more like trying to shooting yourself in the foot (no pun intended).
Bill
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to wdd For This Useful Post:
'Did you feel that surgery would have the momentum to drive the profession forward on its own? Surely not, ?
Surely yes. Not just conjecture, remember the PA had done just that and were still doing it.
As to the numbers argument, that`s a red herring. Other small groups have gained independence with equally small numbers. What was really achieved by amalgamation was going from a specific profession with no apparent connection with divers postal course groups and grandfathered to a group that hadn`t got away from all these connections; taking on those connections.
Under the C.P.S.M the PA surgical qualifications gained full recognition by Privy Council, something never achieved by the Society`s surgical qualification. Then all were lumped together under the HPC, hardly progress !
Yes, I appreciate all of that and regrettably it is so. The question that Simon has posed, is very relevent. There is a journey and timeline still to complete. The only question is which vessel is best suited to make that journey in. With or without? Despite the problems I think it's best with - as long as the narrative encapsulates all. That has always been the issue!
Yes, I appreciate all of that and regrettably it is so. The question that Simon has posed, is very relevent. There is a journey and timeline still to complete. The only question is which vessel is best suited to make that journey in. With or without? Despite the problems I think it's best with - as long as the narrative encapsulates all. That has always been the issue!
Do we all agree that the SCP in it's current form is an unsuitable vessel?
Do we all agree that the SCP in it's current form is an unsuitable vessel?
I think a new body would be preferable. An entrenched mindset would be, at best, a distraction - and having experienced that mindset first-hand it would be unwise to underestimate its impact - whether the members wished a different direction - or not. Another issue is liabilities - I do not know the present funding position with the SCP - what arrangements are in place for contracts and pensions and the like. It's a membership organisation - wind it up and distribute the assets - if there are any left - to the members. Sometimes it's best to start with a clean sheet and build from there.... Both you and John mention the PA - where the critical factor was momentum. Something that is difficult to achieve when you have a dead weight tied around your neck!
Who is the current Chair of the Society - Alison Wishart? Might someone give her the heads up and invite her to detail the Society's strategic plan for the next 10 years?
Re: The UK needs a united professional body
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