Should We Retrain the Gait of Asymptomatic Runners?

Kevin
Is Salazar looking at biomechanics as a method to help move a mass from a to b faster or do you think he's looking from a podiatry perspective that aims to reduce loads and forces acting on particular joints / structures?

Is it possible to look at changes in CNS control of motion over time if a persons body position is altered during activity?
Does neural and or dural tension caused by long periods sitting at a desk affect CNS function and thus movement patterns?
Is neural mobilization / Neuromechanics needed to help to retrain gait or technique?

Not too many clinics exist that can cater for all aspects and this possibly adds to the allure of a one fix fits all approach.

I don't think the coaching evidence for technique retraining exists and what does is anecdotal and based on time improvement but as long as. The athlete understands the risk then improving technical aspects can be an addition to fitness training. Marginal gains wins medals and nobody likes aiming for bronze. However this world is far removed from the everyday clinical practice of recreational runners.

Too broad a question

 

Leoneenan, whoever you are, you have now twice stated that I have asked too broad a question while the rest of us are not having any problem discussing the issues I asked in the original post. If you feel it is too broad a question then either don't contribute or rather contribute something that is more specific that you feel is relevant. Or better yet, why don't you start your own thread asking a question that is not too broad???

 

Kevin
My point is simple. Your question doesn't ask what type / scope / population / equipment available or the goal of the retraining. You would do research without these variable because you would prove or disprove anything if you did.
Therefore consigning gait retraining to same category as barefoot running is too small an answer to a big question.
I'm sure there's been no research published from the university of Delaware on gait retraining using visual feedback from motion sensors which tracked variables such knee valgus moment and he played adduction and trackedthese changes after the retraining had stopped.
I also remember a non published masters thesis on the comparison of sprint mechanics and distance running mechanics which claimed sprinter are more economical. Some research is available but no one can control all variables so coaches have to use instinct and trial and error to find the formula for each athlete.
Sure coaches shouldn't be prescribing orthotic adjustments etc but they should push the boundaries.

 

Leoneenan, whoever you are, since when do we not discuss subjects because they are "too broad". I'm not asking for concrete answers, I'm not asking for us to propose research, I'm asking for discussion, and please, for the life of me, show me where I "consigned" gait retraining to the same category as barefoot running.

Also, for your information, many people here on Podiatry Arena won't enter into discussions with people who don't have the professional courtesy to tell us their real names.

 

How can you make an asymptomatic runner better ? Perhaps by increasing speed, distance, capacity. I love the way some people talk about "Improving gait, or biomechanics" with retraining or orthotics. I didn't know there was proven the best way to run that suited everybody.
If it aint broken don't fix it is my motto.
Obviously if someone comes with a problem and I can see a possible solution I will suggest changes but if they don't have a problem I can certainly make them worse.

 

but if they don't have a problem I can certainly make them worse

Sorry doc, but herein lies the problem. Adding an orthotic to the mix is not a “fix”, but an improvement in biomechanical efficiency.
It reduces excess pronation movement
It reduces time on the ground
It balances the structure for the greatest mechanical advantage to the muscles

Of course this is dependent on being able to accurately and reliably make a Rx that fits.

 

I see you pushin' for a sale here Denny-boy, but no-one seems to be takin' a bite. Don't dispair, a new sale dawns. Keep pluggin', keep pushin', one of these pinks who haven't previously been exposed to your patter will bite soon, I'm sure. In the meantime, it might be worth steadying yourself and working out your counter arguments in case one of them turns round and asks you for any evidence to support your claims above; tell them that "you have science on your side"- that nearly worked last time, but for "Dobbs" sake don't offer any evidence to support your claims, you know you're not good at that, so don't get drawn in to scientific debate, just keep making unfounded statements and I'm sure someone will buy your silicone implants soon.

 

For any budding podiatrists/biomech enthusiasts out there, you would do well to treat the above as a good example of how not to look your chosen subject.

Honestly,

.........I mean, really? Do people still think like this.....balancing structures

 

.I mean, really? Do people still think like this.....balancing structures


Maybe you should consider what you do have. A prescription orthotic that is about 50/50 effective, in clinical trials as a generic orthotic.

And you've had over 60 years of advanced medical technology?? NOT

 

I have absolutely no idea what any of the above is supposed to mean, sorry

 

Dennis - we had a really good debate going on here about gait retraining. This particular thread is not orthoses-centric, difficult as that may be to understand for you. If you have something to say on gait retraining by all means pitch in. If not then please start another thread so as not to derail the discussion here.

 

Ian,

If you would concentrate on an efficient biomechanical orthotic, you wouldn't be discussing 'gait retraining”. It's inconceivable to change something about a runner's foot strike hand placement or timing to increase speed or capacity as effectively as a proper fitting orthotic.

Reliable fitting Orthotics fit into every discussion of the lower extremity. Unfortunately, traditional orthotics are not reliable. Gait retraining is actually a consideration due to the poor performance of traditional orthotics and lack of scientific validity.

 

There speaks the truest words by a true Doktor of Forbidden Science. Y'all should listen 'n learn. Forbidden Science is somethin' altogether different from all those failed unscientific endeavours; IT IS THE ONE TRUE SCIENCE!!

The Fish speaks not the BS pseudoscience of those misled by the failed "hard" sciences of The Conspiracy, such as Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Astronomy, Cosmology, Computer Science, Mathematics, and Technology, as well as the failed "social" sciences, such as Political Science, Sociology, Economics, Philosophy, Anthropology, Theology, and Archaeology..clearly Forbidden Science is the ONLY area of science making ANY significant amount of scientific progress.

Only real Doktors are capable of understandin' Forbidden Science.

Now, Close your eyes, Clear your heart, let it all go.

 

It's interesting to see how frightened and intimidated you really are. No one, particularly craig and Kirby would discuss the technology or loading bio-mechanics. Spooner for all his buffoonery also could only deviate from a true discussion in biomechanical orthotic technology. Doesn't matter what claims you perceive, there's no need on my part to even prove some of the things I've said. However, if you ask me to prove the technology, that's another matter.

 

Dennis you were asked nicely. If you have something to get off your chest then please do start a new thread. Any further posts from you in this thread that continue to detract from the topic in the title will be deleted.

 

This comment has been deleted

 

Apologies - looks like I was the pinky, J.R Dobbs

Griff - I notice you use the term "cues". Where did this come about?

I think the terminology (as always) makes the discussion more contentious than perhaps it needs to be.

"retraining" suggests a long term modification to running gait that, through repitition might become an adopted pattern. CLinically, is this what we are trying to do?

I would suggest not in most cases. I think we are temporarily altering loading to acheive a short term effect that may not be required in the longer term with the introduction of exercise regimen, stretching, orthoses, recruitment exercises etc.

I'm not sure what the best word is. "Modification" again sounds quite permenant to me.

Something like temporary modifcation in running technique (TMRT).


The jester in me has also thought about " fugacious alteration in running technique" (FART) or temporary alteration in running technique(TART). Clearly that is the thinking of a juvenile who delights in base humour.......hmm accurate

 

I think these runners may need some retraining:


Steven