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Hi Solemates! (retail & healthcare???)

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by jambutty, Jan 26, 2008.

  1. jambutty

    jambutty Member


    Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.
    Have used this valuable site quite alot - now hoping that it will be of help to me -
    I am a BSc Pod f/t in ubiquitous UK retail branch and I am disturbed by various practices, but wondering if I am over reacting???
    My main concern is the authority (& often white coats) given to unqualified shop assistants labelled 'footcare advisors' and the unqualified advice they freely give, re: dermatalogical, nail cxs, etc.... and (most alarmingly OTS orthoses) with no instruction to ascertain individual health statuses or Hxs - is this entirely legal as they are not registered health care providers?
    Surely, they should simply refer clients to products when asked, recommend that instructions are read and suggest an appointment with a Pod if the client has further concerns.
    A particular worry - I have yet to find trial evidence re: OTS unposted orthoses and the ethics of the recommendations for them to help foot, knee and back pain without professional assessment. True most sold are accommodative, although a small number are the rigid type.
    I feel that to ignore this situation is to ignore/neglect my duty of care.
    I understand that commercial pressures demand that bonuses are linked to these sales but I don' t feel at ease with it all. I am very concerned that the bonus system blocks access to the Pods and worry that this may have engendered a culture of often young, minimum-waged staff dispensing advice and posing as 'Chiropodists' - the amount of public ignorance astounds me as I have witnessed a large number blithely placing their trust in these assistants who have been endowed with a little bit of power.
    Over the last few months 3 clients have expressed anxiety in relation to 'diagnoses' made by one of the aforementioned assistants i.e. "you have a fungal nail infection" (this idea freaked out this particular client - 'er, I have a parasite') and 2 were told that they were not walking properly as "hard skin over the balls of the feet shows that you are walking on them and you shouldn't be as we walk from heels to toes"!!!!!!
    This would be funny (ish) if the clients had not been concerned and fooled by the white coat. I wonder how much more of this obvious nonsense goes on to hapless shoppers when I am snipping and whittling away in the back room.
    A Pod friend reckons it's all harmless - and it I may well be that I am wrong (hope I'm not being arrogant). I am interested in fielding opinion from those who have experience in this area.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2008
  2. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member

    :welcome:​

    I have moved this to the UK Forum, from the Introduction forum.
     
  3. Princess

    Princess Active Member

    Hi,
    I have a feeling that I have some experience in the same field (albeit limited to a matter of days) - I heard four of my patients for the day told the same thing regarding callus being an indicator of major dysfunction and even one pt told that although they thought their shoe size was 8 - when measured (Cross legged and non-weight bearing) it was apparently a 5.5 and that she also needed orthoses in these smaller shoes!!

    I am in private practice now but previously worked for another well known podiatry retail brand - no longer trading - but we were allowed to coach staff to refer everything to us - they weren't to diagnose or attempt to advise beyond their scope - often it ended up with me being asked lots of questions throughout the day - and numerous trips to the shop floor - but I was happier with that than the alternative.

    The issue with the retail sector is that profit is king - and I'm unsure what support you would get with attempting to change this long established situation - and I can't see staff being happy if their commission is threatened!!

    It's a hard one - definitely worth a try - because this will never sit well with you as a professional.
     
  4. ChrisS

    ChrisS Member

    Hi,

    i had also worked for Scholl (as that is who i assume you work for) and for Boots until they closed so i have experiance in this.

    I was fortunate when i was working for them (Scholl) in as much as the store i worked in was very well run and all of the staff worked for the benefit of the patient/customer. Myself and the other podiatrists spent a lot of time working with the staff training them to recognise common foot conditions and to refer to us appropriatley, we didnt have any issues of the sort you describe. But there was a managment shuffle and it went down hill rapidly and the culture of sales was pushed very hard and to the detriment of patient care.

    When this occured i left. I had tried to talk to the senior managment but they werent interested in patient care only in profit.

    I would recommend you either sit down with the store staff and you regional manager to air your views and try to instigate change :deadhorse:
    or begin looking for another job elsewhere. Once you leave you will be very glad you did.

    Good Luck
     
  5. andymiles

    andymiles Active Member

    i too worked at scholl for a while after graduating in the early 90's, crap job, crap pay.:bang:

    i know that NHS jobs are few and far between at the moment but my advice is if you can escape, do.
     
  6. Easy on the naming and shaming lads (and lasses). Certain retail outlets have very poor assistant training programs and very, very good lawyers!

    To answer the OP, i think that there is definitly a dubious ethical dimension to giving shop assistants a 4 hour training course and then turning them loose on the GUP. The really perilous part is that the people on this course are genuinely led to beleive that they know what they are talking about! As per the well known and oft lamented principle that the less you know the more you think you know they make confident and frequently dead wrong diagnoses.

    I have the dubious honour of having done the shop assistants course back in the day so i speak with a certain amount of relevant experiance.

    Chris, perhaps the environment has changed since i was there but when i was a lowly shop assistant the manager had the inherent morality of a puff added. Sales were everything, profit rewarded, not selling your "quota" was penalised. In the days before minimum wage a £12 incentive on a "£2.34 per hour wage tells you all you really need to know. Oh the assistants THOUGHT they were helping people... But oh dear.

    A part of the training was in the "pedograph" pressure sensor (essentially a harris & beath mat). The training was that the manager went through a sheaf of readings and told us how to explain what was wrong with them. All of them. There was, she said, no such thing as a healthy reading.

    Leaving aside the dubious clinical relevance of that particular diagnostic tool thats just a bit chilling.

    Hmmmm. Best of luck with that. :pigs:

    And a warm welcome to the New members on this thread!

    Regards
    Robert
     
  7. jambutty

    jambutty Member

    Hi everyone!

    Ta for the responses - I had no intention of naming & shaming and even felt a little treacherous making the original posting HOWEVER, still erring on the side of circumspection I can neither confirm nor deny that the retail outlets named are correct.

    My intention was to establish if my experience is common, sadly it seems it is and I suppose I wanted to vent a little spleen (sounds messy).

    The whole shebang is ethically highly dubious but will rattle on, as we all have to make a crust - don't we.
    I do feel though as if I'm tacitly consenting to a conspiracy of confidence tricksters and I despise the inherent , shabby cynicism.
    I will soon have to get out, cos attempting to review the situation with managers at any level would certainly be like flogging a dead horse (although my manager would put a 'bargain' price sticker on it and attempt it!!)
    On a positive note I am still able to do me work (and sotto voce recommend non-profit related methods of treatment) and employ most of my skills and that is satisfying. It's a good place to cut teeth (& toenails, ho , ho) and to have daft ideals dispelled I suppose.
    Glad those contributors who got out got out and hope pastures new are green!
    Ta solemates!
     
  8. ChrisS

    ChrisS Member

    Sorry for naming and shaming i couldnt help myself.

    Your experiance is very common, i have known a lot of ex- employees complain of the same things you are. I also after returning from travelling 14months ago locumed a few times at various stores of that well known retail store and things were worse than ever.

    Robert the Harris and Beath mat was just being phased out when i 1st started and i often found the copies in patient notes i always thought they made a nice picture but served no real use other than that, but the patient often like having them!!

    regards

    Chris
     
  9. Good news!

    Lets hope they have not just replaced it with a more hi tech version with pretty red bits on a computer:rolleyes:.

    Oh i am a cynical sod!

    Robert
     
  10. hrm94

    hrm94 Member

    Jambutty et al

    The public are easily led in a situation where the retailer has historically a proven name in the podiatry field, thanks to marketing and lots of money behind them- the public automatically associate expertise with the name!!

    I hate to say it, but it is not only the big names that are happy to con the public. a few years ago a patient of mine reported to me that she had been advised to have a free cosultation wth a chiropodist (befroe the days of HPC)that had given a talk at the local womens institute. He advised her, at the FREE consultation, that she needed insoles and he would provide them . He then supplied a £20 pair of orthoheel orthotics- for the grand price of £200. Needless to say I sent her back to demand a refund !But he made a lot of money that day.

    I hope things have changed but I suspect not.

    Regards

    hrm94
     
  11. Dido

    Dido Active Member

    Hi Folks,
    Years ago, when I fell on hard times :boohoo: I also worked for a well-known high street outlet that provided footcare. I did not see any unethical selling but my employment didn't last very long. All treatments were standardised and had to last exactly 30 mins. 10 mins of that was a footsoak just thrown in to "pad out" the treatment. The equipment was ropey and always breaking down, the area manager always turned their mobile off on a Saturday and was therefore unavailable to help with any problems. :craig: I didn't feel comfy with the set-up and was very glad to leave.
    regards
    Dido
     
  12. Princess

    Princess Active Member

    I also heard on the grapevine that a certain large retail outlet having closed its practices a few years ago have now aquired a large retail footcare chain!
    Definitely glad I got out when I did.
    ChrisS - did you work for Chester branch of the no longer trading retail footcare company by any chance?

    Regards
     
  13. victoriah

    victoriah Active Member

    This is pretty much my exact same experience...a really rather shoddy service, and overpriced, to boot. Oddly a large number of the patients were rather taken with the 'brand' as yardstick of quality. So much so that many of them looked down on my BSc (hons), preferring to be treated by someone who had been trained by a certain high street store, instead. I can only assume that the brand in question is very powerful in people's imaginations...because the clinic conditions and state of the instruments was bloody awful.
     
  14. ChrisS

    ChrisS Member

    indeed i did princess, do you know me? .

    I also heard about the now defunct retail footcare company now owning the company that runs the still surviving retail footcare company (it would be so much easier if i could use the name ;) ) but as far as i now they have no plans to do anything about it.
     
  15. jambutty

    jambutty Member

    No plans as far as I know, still poor, tatty clinics and REALLY bad instruments - very undermining and amazing really as we Pods are the business's best asset - you'd think the current economic climate would lead to appreciation of us - if only to enable capitalisation!
    The GUP generally have little if any idea of our qualification, scope of practice and abilities.
    I am constantly being asked the diff tween chiropodist and pod, (some just assume I'm a pedicurist) - this is probably not uncommon in other Pod working environments, I just cannot understand why the company concerned (ssssh) aren't promoting us??? Seems they are missing a beat, as people keep rolling in (pardon the pun) for treatment and many have health insurance.
    It is virtually impossible to do the job without efficient tools of the trade; achieving good treatment in the allotted time is a real struggle with blunt nippers, shiny, smooth files, broken swan necks etc...
    Any problems reported to the manager are inevitably seen negatively, as for them to act on them would put them at loggerheads with their managers - profit, profit, profit!!!
    Nail surgery is something I cannot contemplate in such an unsupportive environment - I was told that in the unlikely event of L.A. anaphylaxis one of the shop assistants should be told to run to the nearest pharmacy for an epipen - that's reassuring, then.
    And furthermore....whoever thought of the idea of booking patients in every 20 mins? Not readily accommodated by the present booking system and truly exhausting, especially when new patients and multiple problem patients are booked in - but then medical histories & comprehensive care are essentially irrelevant (I suppose), just tidy up those lucrative feet and stop yer belly-aching (I suppose). There are many other things that irk, irritate & piddle me off - not least that I am unable to constructively address them within the company.
    Reluctant to turn this into a moanfest - but, I am truly amazed and very disappointed at the silly condition of this 'still surviving', misguided, greedy company. On the other hand - there will always be Pods who come forward to do the work for them, locums and regulars - so who's laughing last?
    - HPC registered Podiatrist seeks satisfying work!-
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2008
  16. elmsj

    elmsj Guest

    Hi Jambutty,
    I have experience of working for a retail chain a couple of years back, for 6 months or so, I left because of a terrible relationship with the store manager
    ( who. after i left, got the sack!, with hindsight I should have stayed!)

    I used to do 30 min appts, though i did hear of some stores doing 20 min appts with"footcare assistant" type staff doing all the tidying up, rebooking of clients, getting them into the footbath etc. Leaving the Pod to just come in and "do their stuff". hard work by the sounds of it and not particularly rewarding.

    I did hear of some Pods staying at their stores for a good number of years, building up their patient regulars etc with good support, but it really depends on the store staff and in particular manager.

    Has there been a high pod staff turnover in your branch?? Maybe, it may be worth having a word with your area manager to air your concerns. Perhaps after a meeting with them, you could get the support of higher up managers and get your store staff to "field" enquiries etc to you, rather than just dishing out inaccurate information willy nilly. After all i am sure they would rather retain you than lose you and have to re-advertise etc.
    Can you set up a meeting with some manager higher up than your store manager?

    Good luck,
     
  17. jambutty

    jambutty Member

    hi elmsj - I find the work intolerable, will leave.
    Sorry you feel you shouldn't have. Hope you have found rewarding work elsewhere.
    Maybe 'it' (the problem) is my manager :bash:, maybe it is the company ethos (sounds dignified) :bash: :bash:. It's a pernicious combo of both.
    Haven't got the heart to be instrumental in managers' sacking, altho plenty of scope. Not least underrating of Pods (the cash cows).
    Why was yours given the Big E?
    I'd like to think that life as a Pod would be much improved if I had my way and I was able to rebook and arrange appts, & spend sufficient time with pt probs - but not confident with the company - besides which I am worried about nail dust inhalation and the crappiness of the equipment.
    Ho hum :confused:
     
  18. elmsj

    elmsj Guest

    Jambutty, I am sorry you find it intolerable, I do understand though. I left and set up my own clinic from scratch, which was one of the best things I ever did! The right time, place etc etc. However looking back, I am thinking, maybe if i had a better manager, it was a good way to earn a living, turn up, do the patients, clean up and go home. Rather than having all the expense, and effort of setting up my own clinic with all the associated costs of advertising, rent, waste collection etc etc.......

    but then again.....it may be clouded by time! and rose coloured glasses etc

    The manager got the sack for stealing £30 (ish), which was given to the branch as a reward for reaching some target or other, she was supposed to buy wine with it. There was other stuff as well, but I had left before this happened, so dont know what that was all about.

    I do remember advising my clinical area manager that the instruments needed sharpening , or replacing etc, and it took a while but they got sorted eventually. I didnt ask my manager though as she wouldnt have done anything about it.
    I also remeber being miffed that our branch never got a refit, it was always somewhere else in the country that got nice new clinics etc and what i worked in was somewhat constricted and crabby!

    Good luck in your next Podiatric venture whatever it is, i do sympathise .
     
  19. Princess

    Princess Active Member

    Hi ChrisS - not directly - I worked at Bolton branch - but I am very good friends with our regional manager as was - and she always spoke highly of you.

    Regards
     
  20. jambutty

    jambutty Member

    :D ...was how this bit was supposed to read!...and I still haven't. Has anyone? I can appreciate how these products may alleviate aches, pains and strains relating to overpronation, & how the met dome ones can be of assistance - but, what was all that complex biomech stuff at Uni all for then?
    As stated before: I understand that commercial pressures demand that bonuses are linked to these sales but I don' t feel at ease with it all. I am very concerned that the bonus system blocks access to the Pods.
    Generally, I worry that shop floor staff selling OTS orthoses to customers are not asking about medical conditions...but then these products are available in many stores to be bought by and for anyone, so I guess there's no point in worrying.
    Just goes to show how effective my training was in ramming home the need for evidence based practice amongst other things, but this may have just been NHS expediency.
    Also...The public can make insurance claims for the more expensive rigid type - but they do not have to have seen a Pod??? V. :confused:
    And is the practice of writing my HPC reg no. and putting my name on printed receipts for claims w/o my knowledge/signature acceptable?
    The latest wheeze is the co are considering making the selling of foot care products as well as orthoses bonus linked for Pods - open that door wider!
    Good wishes to all in Pod land :)
     

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