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Suppliers of phenol?

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by Martin Langdon, May 9, 2006.


  1. Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.
    As EZ swabs cost an arm and a leg, I'm looking for a reliable supplier of phenol in liquid and crystal form. Where in the UK do you buy yours?
     
  2. Admin2

    Admin2 Administrator Staff Member

  3. As I have found, that seems to be it.
     
  4. Dawn Bacon

    Dawn Bacon Active Member

    Dear Martin,
    Liquid phenol can be purchased from Stoke Manderville hospital.
    Hope this helps,
    Poll
     
  5. Polly, thank you.

    Martin
     
  6. joseph Paterson

    joseph Paterson Active Member

    I have just finnished a research module on Phenol, whilst researching I found that as Podiatrist we have no legal right to use phenol liquid or other wise.

    "Only Medical and Dental practioners have the legal right to use phenol. Therefore UK Podiatrist must consider the use of Phenol as an illegal act". (Turner W. A)
    MHRA has approved as a class 11b Medical Device called EZ-swabs that we can use.
    (You can alway order 500ml from a chemist)
     
  7. Joseph

    I agree with your 'illegal use' statement as since posting the original question a reliable source tells me the Society, no doubt followed by hpc, will make a similar declaration in the near future. EZ swabs will be the only lawful way forward. Hopefully demand will then push the price down. Meanwhile I've dug deep and bought a pouch of EZ swabs (DLT) for £93.94 !
     
  8. joseph Paterson

    joseph Paterson Active Member

    I heard that DLT has applied for a license for EZ-Swabs, will they be the sole trader who supplies every other supplier?
    Has anyone noticed that EZ-swabs only come in one size, so from now on, one size will have to fit all sizes of incisions. There is no way that the price will come down to the same price of a 5ml bottle of phenol.
     
  9. betafeet

    betafeet Active Member

    Joseph have you published ????

    jude
     
  10. joseph Paterson

    joseph Paterson Active Member

    No, it was a reasearch essay towards a degree.
     
  11. carolethecatlover

    carolethecatlover Active Member

    Goodness Gracious Me

    I hope this is not the same stuff as I can buy by the litre in any hardware store in Australia, as ant killer and big bin disinfectant! illegal in the UK?
    Carole :eek:
     
  12. joseph Paterson

    joseph Paterson Active Member

    There are many indusrial uses of Phenol under tight control, I was surprised by the amount of uses that Phenol has. Next time I need to order some I will tell the chemists it is to kill ants. That maybe one way others can avoid paying the high price of EZ-Swabs
     
  13. betafeet

    betafeet Active Member

    Joesph
    "Only Medical and Dental practioners have the legal right to use phenol. Therefore UK Podiatrist must consider the use of Phenol as an illegal act". (Turner W. A).
    Looking for ref for this quote cannot find ?????????journal/book/when.

    Jude
     
  14. joseph Paterson

    joseph Paterson Active Member

  15. betafeet

    betafeet Active Member

    Thank you, will be useful in my present module.

    Judexxxxxxxxxxxx
     
  16. betafeet

    betafeet Active Member

    Legality of Phenol

    Phenol itself is under review with regard to the legality of podiatrists using it. As suggested by Turner and Merriman "Only medical and dental practitioners have the legal right to use Phenol. Therefore UK podiatrists must consider the use of Phenol as an illegal act", (The Foot, 2005). Health and Safety Executive 2000 recommended prevention of “clinicians being exposed to phenol by any route”. Phenol can be absorbed by the skin or inhaled, remaining in the tissue up to 38 days and recorded to cause ”digestive problems, nervous, skin, kidney and liver disorders and has caused cancer in laboratory animals”, (Cummings 2005). The Medicine and Healthcare Regulatory Agency (MHRA) Oct/Nov 2005 approved the use of Phenol as a class 11b Medical Device called EZ-swabs, substituting the liquid; these swabs will be the only lawful way forward for podiatrists. EZ swabs present a problem in themselves, coming only in one size unlike patients’ toes which come in all shapes and sizes.

    Jude
     
  17. pd6crai

    pd6crai Active Member

    We get out phenol crystals from mobilis.
     
  18. Snowstorm

    Snowstorm Active Member

    Phenol Crystals

    Are phenol crystals legal for Podiatrists to use?
    Can anyone advise.

    It won't be long before we will be prohibited from using caustics!
    The end result of this mindless bureaucracy is that the patient will be paying
    allot more for the nail proceedure than is really necessary.

    Mark
     
  19. HAZELSYME@TALKTALK.NET

    HAZELSYME@TALKTALK.NET Welcome New Poster

    Try your local pharmacist
     
  20. philbrizell

    philbrizell Member

    "Only Medical and Dental practioners have the legal right to use phenol"

    I'm I missing the point here? If we are not permited to use phenol because it is a health hazzard, then surely its also a health hazzard to other professionals. So why discriminate against Podiatrists? If the stuffs that bad, then surely they should stop everyone from using it!
     
  21. amcclean

    amcclean Member

    Working in the NHS where the use of Phenol is standard and accepted procedure for nail ops who is liable? If we are using it as part of the trusts protocols etc. does vicarious liability mean that the trust is ultimately responsible?

    Or would we be responsible as it's our own professional decision to go along with their guidelines?

    A
     
  22. hrm94

    hrm94 Member

    Hi Martin et al

    Nova instruments-01707 875600 will supply liquid for approx £7.

    I heard about the illegal use of phenol by us Pods about 3 years ago in a lecture by Alan Borthwick. DLT very quickly jumped in with their EZ swabs- not only do they have the monopoly on the product which means they can keep the price high, they will only sell in large numbers which have a short shelf life and are threrefore not economical for a small practise such as my own. They swabs are also large and cumbersome and no good for very small nail ops.

    If the vast majority of POds didnt know that the use of phenol in any form except EZ swabs is illegal, our patients are certainly unlikely to question us ! There does need to be some clarification from SCP/HPC.

    I for one will not change my protocol until liquid phenol is no longer available. Then I will refer on to some one who is happy to use the swabs.

    I would be interested to hear if any studies have been done on post op nails where EZ swabs were used- eg regrowth, damage to surrounding tissue ?

    regards
    heather
     
  23. Dawn Bacon

    Dawn Bacon Active Member

    Dear Heather et al
    Following all the questions about the legality of our use of liquid phenol, I have changed to using the EZ swabs in my private practice. I have noticed no change in regrowth rates and have not had any cases of damage to surrounding tissue. I do have issues with the cost of the EZ swabs - which has to be passed on to the patients and with the policy of only selling them in large quantities. Trouble is with only one supplier there is no competition.

    I am keeping a log of all procedures and any problems, by the end of August I should be able to produce some meaningful stats to further answer your questions about re-growth and tissue damage.

    Best regards,
    Poll
     
  24. Julian Head

    Julian Head Active Member

    C & P Medical sell 25g crystals for £5.50 (small pot) and 500g crystals for £60

    just melt them, purer than liquified which means lower regrowth rates

    Julian
     
  25. footmedic

    footmedic Active Member

    Hi,
    Here is the article I posted on POD ANWSERS on the legality issues of using caustic substances. (MHRA advice on the use of chemicals)

    We have been asked by the Society of Chiropodists and Podiatrists to clarify the position around the long established use of chemicals in podiatric practice.
    We understand that chiropodists and podiatrists use several chemicals in practice - specifically liquid phenol, pyrogallol, monochloroacetic acid and salicylic acid. The first three have a corrosive action. Salicylic acid is keratolytic. Historically, these substances were considered to be medicinal products where medical claims were being made. However, the change to the definition of a medicinal product means that the mode of action is important in determining the regulations that apply to it. This is because where a substance does not have a primary mode of action which is pharmacological, metabolic or immunicological it falls outside the definition of a medicinal product.
    The acids mentioned in the paragraph above are chemical in action and therefore fall outside the definition of a medicinal product. This means they are not covered by medicines legislation. However, if they are placed on the market with medicinal claims, they will come within the remit of the medical device regulations and should therefore be CE marked as medical devices. At the moment, we are only aware of one phenol product on the market that falls into this category.
    There is no bar to a chiropodist/podiatrist purchasing a chemical that makes no medicinal claims for use in his practice. The Agency would expect that such use is accepted professional practice. The Agency also acknowledge that professional regulation of practice means that a chiropodist/podiatrist using these chemical products should be competent to do so and would abide by other relevant legislation related to the use of harmful substances, for example: Control of substances hazardous to health (COSHH).
    Nevertheless, we understand that manufacturers of these chemical products may not be subject to approved quality assurance systems or any other safety requirements. As they are administered to patients, we would therefore recommend that the Society raises this issue directly with their suppliers to encourage them to manufacture their products as medical devices, complying with the requirements of the Medical Devices Directive 93/42/EEC and CE marking them accordingly.


    Somuz
     
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