Welcome to the Podiatry Arena forums

You are currently viewing our podiatry forum as a guest which gives you limited access to view all podiatry discussions and access our other features. By joining our free global community of Podiatrists and other interested foot health care professionals you will have access to post podiatry topics (answer and ask questions), communicate privately with other members, upload content, view attachments, receive a weekly email update of new discussions, access other special features. Registered users do not get displayed the advertisements in posted messages. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our global Podiatry community today!

  1. Have you considered the Clinical Biomechanics Boot Camp Online, for taking it to the next level? See here for more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Have you considered the Clinical Biomechanics Boot Camp Online, for taking it to the next level? See here for more.
Dismiss Notice
Have you liked us on Facebook to get our updates? Please do. Click here for our Facebook page.
Dismiss Notice
Do you get the weekly newsletter that Podiatry Arena sends out to update everybody? If not, click here to organise this.

Internet Interest in Vibram FiveFingers Declining at Rapid Rate

Discussion in 'Biomechanics, Sports and Foot orthoses' started by Kevin Kirby, Mar 23, 2013.

  1. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    Sales of Vibrams are down 50% from a year or so ago according to SportsOneSource that track this.
     
  2. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    Barefoot running is also in decline as a search term:
    http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=barefoot running&cmpt=q

    Both this and Vibram peaked in later 2010 and have been declining since then.

    'minimalist running' peaked in 2012 and declined this yr:
    http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=minimalist running&cmpt=q

    According to Google Adwords Tool, these terms are currently searched for on a monthly basis:
    Barefoot Running 90 500
    Minimalist running 27 100
    Vibram five fingers 246 000

    This are still a lot, compared to:
    podiatry 673 000
    Kevin Kirby 1900
    do foot orthotics work 28
     
  3. SeasonsChange

    SeasonsChange Member

    Hokas are on the rise!
     
  4. Jonathan

    Jonathan Active Member

  5. Dana Roueche

    Dana Roueche Well-Known Member

    Interest in Podiatry since 2004.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    Interest in 'Podiatrist' since 2004
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Dana Roueche

    Dana Roueche Well-Known Member

    I guess it depends what word you use.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    I don't know why any one would actually search for"podiatry"or"podiatrist" for any way. If you follow what the search engines like Google have been saying in recent yrs, there has been a big decline in the one word search queries. People search for things like"find podiatrist in Sacramento"and not "podiatrist" or"podiatry" -- what would a searcher be looking for by typing those words?
     
  9. Dana Roueche

    Dana Roueche Well-Known Member

    A one word search was used as the subject of this thread.

    Someone may search on podiatry or podiatrist to learn what they might expect when they walk through the door of a podiatrist's podiatry office. If what the article in Outdoor magazine said about a certain podiatrist fitting 90 people per month for orthotics, I would speculate that a new customer walking through the door of that office might expect to be handed a set of forms to fill out and a couple of molds to make impressions for orthotics while they are waiting.
     
  10. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    "Vibram" ...."vibram five fingers" ...the rate of decline for 'vibram five fingers' is even greater.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Dana Roueche

    Dana Roueche Well-Known Member

    Craig, run in whatever works best for you and advise others on what you think will work best for them. It really only matters to Vibram what the internet interest level might have on it's sales figures. I could care less.

    There will always be a broad range of running shoes to choose from. Wishful thinking about a particular brand or model being discontinued is a futile waste of time. If toe shoes ultimately die in the market, I'm sure they will be replaced by someone else's idea of what the next great running shoe will be.

    Every product out there has a life cycle they go through and are ultimately replaced with the next best thing.
     
  12. Dana Roueche

    Dana Roueche Well-Known Member

    It looks like Judge Woodlock dismissed Valerie Bezdek's claim against Vibram for deceptive marketing. He did grant part and deny part of the claim for unjust enrichment and the parties must come back and file a joint proposal. I take this as being sent into mediation for the unjust enrichment part.


    Given her attached marathon results for a sea level marathon, I kind of see her point about not being enriched. I can only guess that this SLOW marathoner thought that by buying Fivefingers that she expected to go from a 10:50 marathon pace up to a 6 or 7 minute pace. NOT. I really don't think Vibram ever promised miracles, she has got to be kidding.


    So apparently she followed the sage advice of this cartoon.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    Nope that is NOT what the judge did! All the judge has done is not grant Vibrams motions to dismiss the case! They did not dismiss the case by Bezdek!

    If you actually read the judgement, the judge was very clear that there appeared to be a case that vibram did engage in deceptive practice. Things are looking not good for vibram if you actually read what the judge said:
     
  14. Dana Roueche

    Dana Roueche Well-Known Member

    Craig, I did read the findings, attached is a picture of the conclusion. The only ones that benefit from something like this are the lawyers. Valerie will get her money refunded if she hasn't already. This will cost Vibram, they will pass that cost onto consumers and the lawyers will get paid for the "services".

    I don't know how you can interpret " defendants' motion to dismiss is granted in part and denied in part" as anything other than granted in part and denied in part. I have to question what you were reading. Why don't you enlighten me and post a picture that supports your interpretation of what you read.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Dana Roueche

    Dana Roueche Well-Known Member

    Craig, Vibram has been around for 80 yrs, I'm not too concerned about their longevity going forward. As far as Fivefingers go, like every other marketed product, it has a product lifecycle. It is a running shoe that has been out there for over 7 years now. That is a long time and I sure would expect things to be winding down at this point. Or at least settling to a niche customer set. Once Fivefingers live out their life, don't hold your breath, something else is sure to replace them in the "now for something different" market segment. You will probably grunt and groan and need to suffer through the life of this product as well. For that matter, a disgruntled consumer who wasn't transformed into an olympic athlete might even sue. This product will live it's life and be replaced by something else. and on and on....

    Life can be a real bummer to those who aren't open to alternative ideas.
     
  16. Dana Roueche

    Dana Roueche Well-Known Member

    In doc 38 filed 2/20/13, the Judge agrees that Valerie Bezdek's allegations of deception on Vibrams part are sufficient. (part 3, section 2, page 8)

    Under Massachusetts law, the plaintiff must prove injury as a result of deception.
    "Bezdek alleges injury in the form of economic loss, resulting from the fact that she would not have purchased FiveFingers if she had known the advertised health benefits were untrue, Compl. ¶ 11, or at least that she paid more for the shoes than they were worth, Compl. ¶ 74."

    The Judge wrote,
    "Bezdek alleges she spent money on shoes she otherwise might not have purchased; but she also received something of value. If there is injury in the form of economic loss, it is in the difference between the value of FiveFingers either having or not having the represented health benefits."

    As for Unjust Enrichment,
    "Unjust enrichment is a theory of equitable recovery, whereby a plaintiff seeks “restitution of a benefit conferred on another whose retention of the benefit at plaintiff’s expense would be unconscionable."
    The judge found,
    "Given the availability of adequate remedies at law for the injury Bezdek asserts, “there is no occasion to invoke equitable remedies” here."

    As far as a class action, the judge wrote:
    "Here too, discovery will shed light on questions like which shoes count as “running shoes,” and the characteristics and motivations of buyers of FiveFingers. Until then, dismissing the class allegations would be premature."

    What this whole thing boils down to is that the judge agrees that Bezdek's allegations are sufficient, that her injury is to be defined as financial and that the financial injury is limited to premium that Vibram charged over the base price for the health benefits and that whether this should be a class action will depend on discovery.

    This might boil down to Vibram needing to pay Ms. Bezdek the difference between what she paid for the shoes and what the court thinks they are actually worth. If it turns into a class action suit, they'd need to pay everyone wanting to join in that difference. So what does that mean $10/pair of shoes determined as running shoes? Time will tell.

    Initially it was estimated that Vibram might be on the hook for $5 million. That was just an estimate and based on refunding the full cost of the shoes and of course paying lawyer fees. It is not a fixed cost, we don't know what Vibram's liability will be if found guilty. Depending what happens, the liability could be a lot less. It could be more, but I doubt it. In the bigger picture, $5M is spare change to a company like Vibram.

    This brings a few things to mind. There have been comments about the price of Vibrams on this forum in the past which led me to wonder how people actually place a value on a running shoe. At this point, most of the major shoe companies have a "flagship" shoe that is priced in the $180 - $200 range. I find that totally ridiculous and abusive but I'm not going to buy the shoes, then turn around and sue the shoe company for financial injury. A typical running shoe is now running around $100-$130.

    Vibram shoes currently sell for $80 to $150 US. The $150 model is a triple layered, insulated, water resistant winter shoe that I'm sure has a difficult manufacturing process. From my wallet, they are well worth $150. Most of their models are in the $100 range. Is this too much?

    How do you place value on a running shoe? Price per pound? Not a good idea. In the world of sport, generally a premium is paid for ultra light equipment. In this case, since Vibrams generally weigh about half of a traditional shoe, should they be priced twice as high?

    How about Price per mile? Maybe that's a better way to do it. Most traditional shoe companies say their shoes should be replaced around 400 miles and certainly by 500 miles. For a $100 shoe, that's a cost of 20 cents per mile. I have logged over 1000 miles on a few pairs of Vibrams so far. I fully expect to get 2000 miles/per pair before throwing them away. That's 5 cents/mile and in this example, maybe Vibrams should be priced at 4 times a traditional running shoe.

    In reality, the price of a running shoe should and will reflect what the market is willing to pay. If you think it's too much, wait 6 months and buy it off the clearance rack for a fraction of the price.

    Knowing that Valarie Bezdek takes close to 5 hrs to run a marathon, I have to question her true motive behind this lawsuit. When she bought a pair of Vibrams, what was she thinking? At her ability level, would she even be able to discern the difference of any any benefits from any running shoe whether it was Vibram or a traditional shoe. You'd have to know going in that Vibrams are not your ordinary running shoe. She claims she bought the shoes and paid what she considers a premium price because of the claimed health benefits. I have wonder what benefit she was really expecting to reap from these shoes. She paid $104 after tax and shipping for the shoes she bought. How much extra did she feel she paid for these shoes because of the marketed health benefits? What does she ordinarily pay for running shoes? Unless she is buying generic branded shoes out of a dept store like Target, NEWS FLASH, running shoes cost $100 or MORE. I'm struggling with the claim that Vibram charges a premium because they can as a result of false health claims. Their pricing is consistent with all of the other running shoes out there. I fail to see where the premium is.

    With all of these lawsuits against shoe companies, I guess in the future the shoe companies are going to have to stick to proclaiming that the new bells and whistles they developed are "GAME CHANGERS" without ever explaining what game they are changing or how it is being changed.
     
  17. Here in Montreal, where it snowed this morning and the wind chill is currently below freezing, nobody is wearing Vibram FiveFingers. Looks like the fad is dead in Canada.;)
     
Loading...

Share This Page