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UWA Podiatry degree?

Discussion in 'Australia' started by ja99, Sep 11, 2006.

  1. ja99

    ja99 Active Member


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    Hi All,
    Any feedback on how (Alan Bryant's) UWA undergrad course is going?

    Would any/many do the planned Masters in Pod.Med leading to "Podiatric Physician" status ?

    Just curious...

    Julian
     
  2. Tuckersm

    Tuckersm Well-Known Member

    Julian, just curious as to who decides the qualification needed to call oneself a podiatric phsycian. To be able to call yourself a podiatric surgeon you need to be be a fellow of the ACPS (now requiring a masters degree but previously not), no such college of podiatric physicians exists, and I don't think any of the reg boards have limitations on the title podiatric physician, but they do for pod surgeon. Further what benefits would be achieved?
     
  3. LuckyLisfranc

    LuckyLisfranc Well-Known Member

     
  4. ja99

    ja99 Active Member

    Stephen,
    I was wondering the same thing, hence my post. The actual quote on the UWA website is:


    Presently, postgraduate students with an appropriate academic background may apply for entry into a Master of Medical Science or Doctor of Philosophy degree by research.


    It is planned to develop a Graduate Diploma in Podiatry, a Master of Podiatric Medicine and a Master of Podiatric Surgery degree by course-work and dissertation. The two Masters degrees fulfilling the primary requirement for specialisation in WA as a ‘podiatric physician’ or’ podiatric surgeon’ respectively


    Surely Alan has sounded out the WA reg. board/ A.Pod.A(WA) etc... to create a bonafide specialization, my question is... would there be a demand from the profession to pursue this avenue?

    I'm not sure, so thought I'd pose the question...

    Julian
     
  5. Tuckersm

    Tuckersm Well-Known Member

    Thanks Julian
    Hopefully any agreements made in WA will be uniform across the country. Hopefully the National Registration will ensure this.

    I think the generic term of podiatric physician will not add very much without a specialty attached, as we are already specialists in the management of the human foot. So will people become podiatric sports physicians, podopeadiatric specialists or podiatric diabetic foot physicians? And how will the masters degree link in with clinical training? Again the Surgeons (podiatrists who do surgery for those in Qld) have a practical training process but none of the other potential specialist areas are close to establishing colleges to support such training. These are probably questions without answers.
     
  6. mahtay2000

    mahtay2000 Banya Bagus Makan Man

    I think the idea is to have enhanced medical CERTIFICATION so 'physicians' can prescribe medications and and order blood tests etc without having to re-refer to the GP.
     
  7. Tuckersm

    Tuckersm Well-Known Member

    Mahaty2000,
    such decsions on who can prescribe are made by state governments, not universities, and presently all podiatrists can reffer for pathology and extra imaging, it just wont be covered by medicare. The Australian Gov needs to change its legislation to allow this, and at present the A.Pod.C. is lobbying to effect these changes for all podiatrists
     
  8. LuckyLisfranc

    LuckyLisfranc Well-Known Member

    I'm afraid that however you dress it up, with whatever 'title' you give a practitioner - nothing changes without legislative reform. Drugs and Poisons Legislation has to change, amendments need to made to Medical and Podiatry Acts, the list goes on. Long, slow, political work.

    Considering less than a few percent of Australian podiatrists undertake higher degree studies, the impetus for a change in the scope of general podiatry towards prescribing and additional diagnostic testing will have to come from ramped up undergraduate programs, not from Masters degrees. There's just not enough interest out there. :eek:

    LL
     
  9. LuckyLisfranc

    LuckyLisfranc Well-Known Member

    Stephen

    One solution to this maybe to follow the lead of the Royal Australasian College of Dental Surgeons who have set up their College to encompass all areas of dental specialisation.

    Dentists can choose to do Fellowship in Periodontics, Paediatrics, Oral Medicine, Oral & Maxillofacial Surgery and other areas. Those not inclined towards further study can simply seek Affiliate status.

    Maybe the Australasian College of Podiatric Surgeons could incorporate non-surgical specialty Fellowships into its organisation (eg Podiatric Medicine, High Risk Care, Sports Medicine, Paediatrics).

    Works in dentistry very well, and has for a long time. :eek:

    What say you>?

    LL
     
  10. Felicity Prentice

    Felicity Prentice Active Member

    Here's an interesting thing. The move in Health Sciences in some Universities (such as Sydney and Melbourne Uni's) is towards Graduate Entry Masters Degrees as the initial vocational degree. That is, you do your pre-med type degree, then your quickie non-research Masters to become a Physio, OT, Speechie, etc.

    How will this impact on the notion of post graduate 'specialisation' within our profession?

    To become a 'something' you will need either a clutch of Masters degrees or a doctorate. Then you will be able to call yourself a doctor, and then won't the punters be confused!
     
  11. LuckyLisfranc

    LuckyLisfranc Well-Known Member

    Felicity

    I always find it interesting that with the widespread use of graduate medical degrees (4 years) in Australia, why we cannot argue a greater scope of practice cant be advocated by our 4 year podiatry programs.

    If an MBBS = 4yrs and gives you scope to prescribe drugs (+ order pathology, radiology and all the other diagnostic aids) for ALL health conditions, why cannot a BPod (also 4yrs) allow prescribing/diagnostics for a narrow range of health conditions. This is intuitive, and shouldnt need to come from a graduate degree (hopefully this can be pulled off in Vic).

    I feel if all the undergraduate programs in Australia taught to this level, then we would be able to argue a strong case to governments. Similarly, a greater role could exist for the uptake of minor surgery in the profession akin to GP level procedures (eg skin cancers, biopsy etc).

    I dont think this matters either way whether it is an UG or PG program.

    LL
     
  12. ja99

    ja99 Active Member

    Come on Sid...
    You must throw in your t'pence, this is your area of "expertise".......
    Julian :p
     
  13. Felicity Prentice

    Felicity Prentice Active Member

    I would imagine that the reason why a 4 year degree - graduate or otherwise - does not entitle you to undertake a range of activities (prescribe, get tests, surge etc) is more to do with politics and economics than education. Medicare already costs more than the government can afford. Even though the long term economic value of having non-medico's be on this system is good, politicians rarely look beyond the next election! The immediate economic impact would dent the nicely balanced budget surplus.

    Add to that the power and lobbying weight of the medical profession, and you can see why the allied health professions are kept under lock and key. If we go to graduate degrees, they will be only 2 years (at the very most 3 years) long. So, even then we will still be behind the graduate medical programs in terms of overall length and volume.
     
  14. Cameron

    Cameron Well-Known Member

    > Come on Sid...
    You must throw in your t'pence, this is your area of "expertise".......

    Here I might want a job there one day.

    To be honest I really do not know much about the new UWA program other than it exists and has close othopaedic ties. The common first year shares medical subjects and the syllabi will include surgical procedures amongst others. I have known Alan and Kevin for many years and both are committed individuals who hold academic integrity as high values.

    As for surgical podiatry I do have some personal reservation at becoming part of an undergaduate program simply because I feel there are insufficient feet in Australia to keep all in business. But only time will tell, but what do I know, anyway. Having said that I have seen the private hospital facilities where surgical podiatry is reularly practised and these were superb.

    Meantime it is public record the membership of the West Australian Registration Board has for many years been made up of surgical podiatrists or practitioners with a specific interest in surgical podiatry.

    Other than that I can saw no more.

    Hope you and the misses are enjoying life ot the full. Meantime we are growing old disgracefully.

    Kindest
    Syd
     
  15. LCG

    LCG Active Member

    I read with intrest the point LL made regarding the title podiatric surgeon in
    QLD. If the legislation does not allow for a fellow to be titled a surgeon as such does it have any authority in whom can call themselves a Dr. It is my understanding that the ACPS awards/entitles fellows of the college as Dr's. Does federal or state legislation have any authority in the use of such titles???
     
  16. LuckyLisfranc

    LuckyLisfranc Well-Known Member

    LCG

    Yes, state legislation governs who can and cannot use the title "Dr", as well as "surgeon" in some jursidictions.

    In Queensland a "surgical podiatrist" cannot use the title "Dr" unless they are:
    1. a medical practitioner or dentist
    2. hold an academic PhD or professional doctorate
    3. are not a health professional in the health professions named in the Medical Act

    These terms are written into the Medical Act (Qld) and are specifically designed to prevent other health professions using the title "Dr". As an animal vet is not listed as a health profession, they can use the titles "Dr" and "surgeon" without fear of prosecution. :mad:

    Interestingly, the entire chiropractic profession in Queensland uses the title "Dr" in Queensland, and they are all listed with this title on the Chiropractor's Registration Board website... One wonders if soon all members of that profession, including the Chiropractors Registration Board, will be prosecuted over breaching the Medical Act in this fair state of ours? :confused:

    To quote our Premier, "Queensland, the Smart State!".

    LL
     
  17. LCG

    LCG Active Member

    Question.....
    How did the dental profession get so much political influence?
     
  18. Felicity Prentice

    Felicity Prentice Active Member

    Dentistry has historically been a branch of surgery - if you want to see political dominance, check out the optometrists (they got on Medicare way way back, damn fine lobbyists).
     
  19. LuckyLisfranc

    LuckyLisfranc Well-Known Member

    LCG

    The other factor is that dentistry and medicine are almost always colocated in the 'sandstone' uni's, and share a long heritage of shared undergraduate education, complimentary practice and 'old boys' networks.

    I think the more pertienent question is "why does podiatry have so LITTLE political influence".

    I'm sure most of us know some of the answers for that... :cool:

    LL
     
  20. ja99

    ja99 Active Member

    Hey guys...is there actually a UWA student/lecturer/tutor who visits here and can offer an opinion on the degree?
     
  21. LCG

    LCG Active Member

    To revisit an old topic re the title "Dr." LL states that it is illegal under the QLD medical legislation for any one other than a medical practitioner, dentist or PHD fellow to assume the title doctor. I am under the impression this is different for every state. I believe in Victoria there are no such guidlines, I argued with a collegue the other day about his moral and legal implications of using the title Dr. He is a 4 year graduate and has been using the title Dr for the last couple of months as a general podiatrist, his reasoning being there were no legal implications in doing so !? Does that mean when national registration is implemented the title "dr." would be able to be used in other states as liberally as it is in Vic??
     
  22. Cameron

    Cameron Well-Known Member

    netizens

    >Does that mean when national registration is implemented the title "dr." would be able to be used in other states as liberally as it is in Vic??

    What happens if the honourary title is not allowed in other states ?:boxing:

    Might parcochial interests stand in the way of the formation of a national registration board ?

    Surely not !:craig:


    toeslayer
     
  23. LuckyLisfranc

    LuckyLisfranc Well-Known Member

    Your colleague is at risk of being hauled up in front of the Registration Board, or being given a "please explain" notice.

    This issue of title is clearly layed out in a policy on the Podiatrists Reg Board of Victoria website: http://www.podboardvic.vic.gov.au/titledr.pdf

    To quote:

    It should however be noted that there is no law in Victoria that prevents any practitioner from using the title of “Doctor” as long as they do not mislead the public into believing that they are a registered Medical practitioner under the Health Professions Registration Act 2005 when they are not.

    However, it is the Board’s policy that a registered podiatrist may only use the
    professional title of doctor, where the podiatrist can demonstrate appropriate and relevant qualifications. Such qualifications would include a Doctor of Philosophy (PhD), or where the title “Dr” is accepted by a recognised podiatric / specialist / medical institution such as the Australasian College of Podiatric Surgeons.

    A registered podiatrist should also include the words podiatrist after his or her name when the title Dr is used. For example, Dr J Citizen (Podiatrist). In the event that the title of doctor does not relate directly to the practise of podiatry, this must be made clear in all forms of correspondence and advertising.


    LL
     
  24. LCG

    LCG Active Member

    Thanks LL I knew I could count on you for up to date legislative info

    I suppose if he was questioned by the board he could argue that there is no law in Victoria preventing him from doing so and he is not misleading the public as he uses the podiatrist tag after his title. The board may have a policy but a policy is different to the law and I would imagine they would have trouble enforing it given that no law has been broken??
     
  25. LuckyLisfranc

    LuckyLisfranc Well-Known Member

    Yes, this is indeed true, and I suspect could not be prosecuted.

    Imagine if the whole Victorian podiatry profession decided on mass to take on the Dr title, as per Chiropractors and Osteopaths...that would be a thing to see!

    Might not be such a bad thing with national registration around the corner, IMHO.

    I'm sure many, like me, get called 'Dr' all day long by a the public - who well understand they are paying to see a podiatrist and not a medical practitioner.

    LL
     
  26. warmaster900

    warmaster900 Member

    Hey Julz,

    I'm a current 1st yr student at UWA enrolled in the podiatry course.

    It's really good, the people are great and its got all the same units as med plus two speciaist pod units. This creates more of a workload for the moment to us pods but nowhere near the amount of the dentists...poor souls.

    The social life is also FANTASTIC, being in the med&dent faculties we have the best parties out of uwa...cause lets face it there's no tools to spoil the parties since we all worked hard to get where we are.

    Btw, if anyone knows anything about the etiology(cause) of plantar fasciitis or can recommend how I even start to write this behemoth it would be sooo appreciated. I got just a tad sidetracked in my research for info for this 15 page assignment on the foot and plantar fasciitis.

    ciao pplz
     
  27. Admin2

    Admin2 Administrator Staff Member

    warmaster - :welcome:
    For everything you will ever want to know on plantar fasciitis, see the threads here tagged with plantar fasciitis
     
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