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Matt good post. As far McDougall's book being fiction or non-fiction, I do know first hand that the better part of the first half of his book is absolutely true. The reason I am so convinced of that is because I was there. I know personally most of the people he wrote about and I ran in and finished the Leadville Trail 100 for 7 years straight from 1993 through 1999. McDougall wrote of Leadville and the Tarahumara in Leadville from 1992 through 1994. There are a few specifics that he didn't get quite right like what happened in which year of Leadville but you would only pick up on that if you were there.

I do know that the Tarahumara wore tire tread and rawhide sandals and won the race in 1993 and 1994 wearing them. I was totally amazed by the fact that people could run that far and that fast on really nasty terrain in the primitive footwear they were using. For that matter, in the spirit of the Tarahumara, in 1994, I ran the entire Leadville 100 miles wearing casual shoes by Rockport just to prove to myself that I could run all day wearing anything on my feet as long as they didn't cause blisters and that it was my form that was more important than the shoe I was wearing.

What was interesting was that just prior to the start of the 1994 race, I saw 10 or 11 Tarahumara all wearing the same Rockport shoes I was wearing. The difference was that they all dumped the Rockports in favor of their sandals by the first aid station at mile 13. I wore mine for the entire 100 miles. I have to guess that the Tarahumara would have failed if they tried wearing Rockports the whole way.

In 1992, 1993 and 1994, at least everyone in the ultra running community was more than aware of people wearing sandals and winning 100 mile mountain races. Believe me, there was a huge amount of discussion between the ultra running community about shoe type and design for years. Other than people trying various racing flats and fell running shoes from time to time, the whole thing kind of went nowhere.

With respect to it being a matter of time before the barefoot/minimal approach became popular, I agree but I have to wonder HOW MUCH TIME? It was over 15 years between the Tarahumara running in Leadville and Chris McDougall's book. Would another 15 years have gone by before minimal shoes became popular, we don't know.

When McDougall's book first came out, I thought jeez I was more than aware of this when I was running side by side with the Tarahumara 15 yrs ago. What I didn't realize was that his book was going to become the catalyst for change in the running shoe industry. It was the spark that created sweeping overnight interest in minimal shoes which prompted the shoe industry to respond with a huge array of minimal shoe options available on the retail market. All of this simply stewed for 15 years in the meantime and because of that, I am really grateful for Chris McDougall giving the running community and the shoe industry the shot in the arm that it needed to get on with it.

Did McDougall come up with anything new? No, we were more than aware of his ideas for years. This difference was that whether he intended it or not, he was behind the cause of change.

Dana

Hi Dana, thank you for your input here.

Yes, I have heard likewise. In the past I have referred to "Born To Run" as semi-fictional – this is a more apt description & I should have kept to this as opposed to using "fiction" (as there is some element of fact/truth based on his personal accounts within the covers). However, there are also plenty of hyperbole/fallacies; putting aside the stated "high-tech science" & the issues surrounding Origins, some of the views/logic on the actual running side of things are left wanting. I respect the Tarahumara & I’m sure they are good runners but I don’t consider them to be (& I quote) "the greatest runners of all time", nor can they (& I quote) "chase down an Olympic marathoner". The vast majority of Olympic marathoners (i.e. a Kenyan) wouldn’t run an ultra-distance race for various reasons (hence out of the picture/equation)... & a Tarahumara hasn’t (& probably wouldn’t) race/compete in an Olympic marathon (for various reasons). Yet, if a group/tribe of Kenyans (i.e. the 140 odd Kenyan Olympic marathon qualifiers who will not make it to London this year or Rio for the next Olympics) were to take up on any of the varying ultra-marathon distances then we may well see a different light on the subject of "greatest runners of all time"... within McDougall’s narrow world view of ultra-running. Frankly, for any objective observer of world class athletics, the finger has been pointing towards the Rift Valley Rim region of East Africa for quite a while now... & no doubt for quite a while to come.

It is because of your above running related experiences I find your input here valuable – you may be coming from a different perspective to most on this forum but it is a perspective I find of practical interest/relevance.

I can’t help but wonder, how long did they have these Rockports (did they train in them leading up to the event) – interesting that they were all wearing the same shoe. Any chance Rockport had something to do with it. If I saw this before the race & if I was a betting man (which I’m not), I would have predicted exactly what had eventuated – it wouldn’t have been long during that first leg before they hated that shoe & subsequently don on foot attire they were accustomed to (it would seem feasible to assume that they prepared in advanced to do this). On the other hand, if we were to put a Rockport wearer in a pair of huaraches at the start, then my assumption would be that he/she would be donning on the Rockports at the first aid station. There is much to be said as to the reasons why, which can’t be delved into now, albeit interesting.

I don’t think so. It was obvious that at least Nike (with the Free 5.0) & Vibram (with the Classic – despite the fact it was said to be designed as a "boating shoe") was thinking down this path well before the 2009 book release. Back in 2004 I was excited with the Free 5.0 (Nike not long after brought out the 4.0) & thought it was just a matter of time before other companies came out with their alternatives. However, I must admit it took longer than I expected.

I’m sure the book had an element to play in the rate of increase popularity. I have recently written a post on another thread referring to the innate desire to fulfil an apparent void within us - to attract a need for a hero... gravitate towards a champion of a cause. I’m not saying this is the case for you but it seems to be the case of others – McDougall being an author of a book which has inspired many to try something a bit different, to challenge an engrained trend - a spokesperson for this apparent new enlightenment which goes against the norm/tradition, enshrouded in mystique (i.e. a "hidden tribe") whilst invoking intrigue (of "superathletes") – just a few more traits which attract individuals to a cause &/or prick one's consciousness (i.e. the media – of which McDougall is a part of – links with Associated Press). Many of which were not seasoned runners but new converts (which is a good thing)... providing they (with their unconditioned bodies) didn’t/don’t get injured which puts them off running for a while or for life. Unfortunately the REAL & PRACTICAL science was a bit slow to follow on this area... & hence all the discussion on this topic within Podiatry Arena (now with quite a few barefoot related threads – the top six of which in the Biomech. forum are barefoot related as of posting this) over the past few years... & the subsequent caution from the Podiatry field which in some cases has been unduly interpreted as criticism (sour grapes) of the barefoot/minimalist concept. A concept of which, by human nature has attracted what some may liken as religious fervour in the manner they represent & justify (which has included misrepresentation of data & use of pseudo-science) to support their now world view of running & foot attire. This subsequently attracts controversy & subsequent heated debates, not unlike other important topics such as "Global Climate Change" & dare I mention it (sorry), but the "Origins Of Life" (yet some topics/debates are allowed a more even playing field than others).

Anyway, back to the topic at hand... i.e. those papers/research/evidence showing which way or the other regarding “Minimalist Shoe/Barefoot Running Injuries”.

Regards,
Matt.

__________________
- alias: Matthew Thomas - Podiatrist.
Back On Track Podiatry.

"To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift": Steve Prefontaine.

That Matthew Thomas guy is 'sick'!

__________________
"If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true is really true, there would be little hope of advance." - Orville Wright

David G. Wedemeyer, D.C., C.Ped.

Thanks David... I think . It wasn't too long ago when that phrase would have only meant something totally different... if it wasn't for that banner wieldering smiley face I would be puzzled. You must be a young dude.

Anyway, was looking into something today relating to this topic & found a couple of papers that could be of interest (if they haven't been cited already)...

No doubt the first one has surfaced somewhere on here before...

- Barefoot Running Claims and Controversies:
A Review of the Literature

- The Barefoot Debate: Can Minimalist Shoes Reduce Running-Related Injuries?


- Running Barefoot or in Minimalist Shoes: Evidence or Conjecture?

__________________
- alias: Matthew Thomas - Podiatrist.
Back On Track Podiatry.

"To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift": Steve Prefontaine.

Matt, I agree that labeling the Tarahumara as the greatest runners of all time is going over board. Although, the Tarahumara in general do have an impressive running culture. This culture allowed them to come to Leadville with NO formal race training, no organized race experience and out or their raw fitness from their daily life routine, win the race two years in a row. The second year, the course record of the 14 year old race was set by Juan Herrara. He had to beat Ann Trason in the process who was one of the greatest ultramarathon trail runners of the time for both men and women. Trying to compare them to the Africans or a world class trained marathoner is pointless.

Rockport absolutely gave the Tarahumara the shoes they were wearing. I doubt they had trained in them because you could tell the shoes were fresh out of the box. Rockport gave me my shoes as well. For that matter, after a few years my closet was jammed with Rockport shoes that they were giving me. I'm sure that most of the Tarahumara dumped the Rockports at the first access point which is Tabor boat ramp, 7 miles into the run. I, on the other hand did train for many miles in Rockport shoes. I was willing to take a chance wearing them for 100 miles but not until I felt confident about running in them on several 40 and 50 mile training runs. What's probably more impressive is not the 100 mile race I did in Rockports but the 1000's of miles of training I did in them to prepare.

Rockport was the primary sponsor of the Leadville Trail 100 for 3 years. Their primary reason for doing so was to develop a trail running shoe and to create interest in Rockport for trail running. They worked with experienced ultramarathon trail runners like me to capture reams and reams of feedback on their shoes as they developed the Leadville Racer. Ultimately Rockport came out with the Leadville Racer versions 1 and 2 as well as several models of lightweight hikers.

The driving force behind Rockport entering the trail running shoe market was Tony Post who left Rockport and became the North American head of VIBRAM! When Post left Rockport, so did Rockport's interest in trail running shoes.

This brings to mind what happened in the running shoe industry between the years the Tarahumara were at Leadville and the time Born to Run came out. There might have been people running barefoot and in minimal shoes and sandals but the BIG push in the running shoe industry at least in the 1990's was TRAIL RUNNING. In the 90's, every major running shoe company had a least a few models of trail running shoes. What was really interesting about the time period is that a lot of the major hiking boot companies decided to enter the market as well. The big companies that come to mind are The North Face, Solomon, Montrail and Merrell. Trail shoes were the biggest growing segment of the running shoe industry at the time, who had time to worry about minimal shoes? Trail running was the current craze. Even Rockport tried, unsuccessfully but they tried.

By the time the 2000's rolled around, the trail running shoe segment had plateaued and for several years, the running shoe industry had nothing new and exciting to have fly off the shelves of the retail stores. So yes, there was the Nike Free and Vibram but I think they needed a little push because they really hadn't broken through as big sellers.

A comment about Vibram and the whole "boat shoe" thing. While they might have been initially marketed that way when they entered the market in 2006, I know for a fact that Vibram was working with Barefoot Ted McDonald at that same time. Vibram was providing Ted with shoes to test on the 100 mile trail runs he was doing. I was having an email discussion with Ted about light trail shoes in 2006 after a post I wrote on the ultrarunning forum. Ted sent me some photos of the Vibram Classics that he was using for trail running. This might have been before the shoes even went on sale. My point is that even though the initial marketing might have followed the water shoe path, Vibram had every intent of working on Fivefingers as a running shoe and were having the shoe tested by runners at the time. My post on the ultrarunning forum was about the fact that I thought trail running shoes in general where way to heavy and clunky for doing 100 mile trail runs. That even on the most rugged trail races, a runner would be better wearing a light weight trainer than the over designed trail shoes of the time. Ted agreed and that is when he told me about VFF.

I agree with you about the hero thing or at least the magic pill phenomenon. Running was truly ready for magic to happen. Whether that came in the form of a magic pill, divine wisdom or whatever, the running community was more than ready for the next solution to turn them into the next world class athlete. Being a die hard runner for almost 40 years by the time McDougall surfaced, I certainly was far from being naive about what he had to say.

While it is easy to do, I am not going to criticize him or his book, that's not important nor is it mature or professional. What is important is that his book gave the shoe companies what they needed to plow millions into a shoe segment that really got very little attention prior to 2009. At this point, the chain reaction has been started, the public has and will continue to be inundated with new minimal shoe offerings until the market plateaus if it hasn't already. Then it will be time to wait for some new solution to running to come out that will again promise to turn the weekend jogger into a world class marathoner.

Dana

Matthew,

Meant with immense respect and praise, I enjoy your posts. Please excuse my jocular but well-intended humor on a Sunday morning. Kevin has been known to jokingly use the word as well I hear, must be a 'Cali' thing. I am after all a Californian, where 'sick' possibly originated from. I'm not a young 'dude' but I am at heart. Sorry for hijacking the thread

__________________
"If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true is really true, there would be little hope of advance." - Orville Wright

David G. Wedemeyer, D.C., C.Ped.

Thanks Dana for that history.

Yes, I figured as much. I don't know too much about the ultra-running scene as I have a history & interest in main stream athletics (i.e. being middle distance runner turned distance runner). Hence the upmost respect for East African runners via their track, cross country & road performance.

My interest in ultra-running is getting stronger.


Yes, this area is interesting. Probably most experienced runners like yourself will realise that there is no real magic bullet or secret method to becoming a world class runner. Becoming a fast runner is something you can't buy or invent... it really comes down to a few things - of which are interrelated to each other i.e. genetics; determination to do the race specific training required; being consistent in doing the work day in day out & fuelling your body with optimal nutrition - it is this area (nutrition) I see that will provide greater insights to gaining better performance from one's self. Many runners do not lead particularly healthy lifestyles, thinking that running alone will suffice; yet optimal nutrition will aid better recovery & more efficient system for enhanced energy production.

Thanks David - feeling is mutual. Just surprised to see the phrase used here. Despite this being a writing medium you start to get an idea of the persona of those you are dialoguing with . Keep it up.

That's cool (I'm still stuck in the good ol 80's)... It's important to stay young at heart... & California is the place where it is required the most (I wouldn't mind living there myself).

__________________
- alias: Matthew Thomas - Podiatrist.
Back On Track Podiatry.

"To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift": Steve Prefontaine.

http://xkcd.com/1065/

Hope this link works 'cause it made me laugh
JB