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New name needed for multiple puncture technique / Dry needling

Discussion in 'General Issues and Discussion Forum' started by richardrobley, Apr 13, 2012.

  1. blinda

    blinda MVP

    I did say kinda. Cell lysis would certainly happen in all physical/tissue destructive methods such as cryo, sal acid, etc but may not be enough to produce the relevant cytokines to destroy latent virus in adjacent cells (Bristow & Styles, 2011). Whilst cell death plays an important part in triggering innate immune mechanisms, it is not the only factor. To quote from Frazers` paper;

    Triggering of innate immune mechanisms is a key initiator of both innate and adaptive immune effector mechanisms for viral clearance. Triggers include double stranded RNAs, single stranded DNAs, bacterial cell membrane components, intracellular molecules released following unprogrammed cell death, and cell membrane associated molecules displayed by distressed cells.


    I`m no immunologist and, as I said before, “we do not have a full understanding of the mechanism of cell-mediated immunity in relation to HPV”, which is indeed complex.

    The results of the latest Cochrane review (attached) of `Topical treatments for cutaneous warts` (2009) of 60 trials stated that evidence of studies was generally weak due to poor methodology and reporting. Cryotherapy, in particular, was noted as “surprisingly” lacking in evidence of efficacy and evidence of the remaining treatments as “limited”. Yet, we still utilise these methods, but with limited results.

    I`m not saying that placebo does not play a part in HPV regression, but I`m not your man to explain the mysteries of suggestibility and hypnotherapy. I know a man who can.


    Ref; Bristow I & Styles C (2011) The treatment of stubborn plantar warts using topical 5% imiquimod cream. Shamopody Now (10) pp14
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Maybe a study could be performed looking at cytokines post needling?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10811142
     
  3. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Maybe it could. Love to see it. But I bet my bottom dollar it wouldn`t be performed by a sole trader in private practice. Thus, I`ll have to make do with clinical assessment only. For now. Appreciate your interest, Simon :drinks
     
  4. I hear that. Up against similar problems. :empathy: For those that don't know: currently in the UK if your are not employed by the NHS or a University, trying to get ethical approval to carry out a research study is virtually impossible, despite the fact that you may be perceived by your peers as an expert with loads of experience in the field- right Belinda?
     
  5. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Right. But I aint no `expert`....just an unhealthy interest ;)
     
  6. How many warts have you FIST'd / SNIVEL'd compared to anyone else in the UK??????? ;) That probably makes you a national expert.
     
  7. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    Hmmmmm Wart FISTing *typed with an expression of a bad smell under my nose*
     
  8. blinda

    blinda MVP


    Really not liking the picture that is conjuring....but, the number of pts used in my paper should soon be made public :pigs:
     
  9. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    Apparently this treatment for warts originated over three thousand years ago in China where it is called 'chou chou '.

    During treatment the patient is encouraged to repeat this phrase with feeling each time the needle passes through his skin.

    Apparently it works as an analgesic.

    You learn something new every day.

    Bill
     
  10. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Hi Bill,

    Do you have a source/ref for that info?

    Cheers,
    Bel
     
  11. People have said many things to me when they feel a needle pass through their skin. Especially for digital blocks. "chou chou" has not been one of them yet...:rolleyes:

    Best check what it means. It could well be chinese for "F*** ME!!!!!"

    Thanks for that little nugget.
     
  12. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    That made tea come down my nose !!:D:D:D

    Cheers
    D;)
     
  13. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    Sorry Bel.,

    Of course if you run a number of 'chou chou' together it very quickly becomes,
    ch/ouch/ouch/ouch/ouch/

    But give them the little story (the romance and magic of oriental medicine) and involve them with the 'chou chou's and it might make it easier? OK are you ready for a little cho chou now?

    Back in 1984 when I was at LFH Two American podiatrists came across to lecture the students on biomechanics. One of them was using a technique with a similar rationale to dry needling.

    He would inject the verruca with cortisone delivered with a jet injector. The idea was that the jet injector would blast viral particles along with cortisone through the capsule. The cortisone would delay the immune response giving the viral particles time to multiply (do they multiply outside the cells of the str.spinosum?) and ensuring a massive eventual immune response and thus increasing the likelyhood of cure.

    I did wonder if he actually doing it or only thought that it might be a good idea?

    Bill
     
  14. Facepalm!

    Well played sir.
     
  15. citychiropody

    citychiropody Member

    witchcraft ??
     
  16. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    i'd stop messing about and call the treatment 5-flourouracil.

    With the podiatrist debriding the lesions every few days to allow the medication to penetrate I would expect the cure rate to go up from 70% or so to nearly 100%. No pain. No scar.

    So it would take a few weeks. So what.

    Bill
     
  17. No, you want to give 'em a dose of radium as several of my antique texts from the 1930's recommend... :butcher:
     
  18. Oxyacetylene torch. Anecdotally, 100% success rate.

    The question you have to ask is do we want our vps developing super powers?
     
  19. Mark Dave Smith

    Mark Dave Smith Active Member

    May I suggest Dry F.I.S.Ting if the good Dr Spooner hasn't already beaten my to that one.
     
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