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Ashes

Discussion in 'Break Room' started by W J Liggins, Jul 12, 2013.

  1. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member


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    Good afternoon esteemed Australian viewers.

    Who's this bloke Agar then? 19 years old and he gives the most experienced batsmen in the world (Aussie and Pommy) a lesson in how to bat.

    Even I would have liked to see him reach his ton. (there's time to finish the game and beat the Aussies yet; to paraphrase Drake).

    Pommie Bastard Bill
     
  2. Deka08

    Deka08 Active Member

    I think I'll sit in on this thread.

    Agar (the 'orrible - according to one headline) is a prime example of Australia's revolving door for spinners/bowlers who come in and manage to make the run tally look better than the real batsmen could manage. Good on him, hope he can keep it up.
    Also good innings by Ian bell.
    Both good innings overshadowed by the disgraceful act of Stuart broad (and aleem dar). And as pointed out by Michael Vaughan, this will overshadow what has already been a great start to the ashes, and broad will now be remembered as a cheat, his words not mine, although I agree.

    Ahh, end of day 3, only 22 days of test match cricket to go, if the poms last out the days. Game on.
     
  3. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    Bell's one of mine, playing for Warwickshire. About time he showed his ability though.

    I tend to agree on the Broad issue. However, as Geoff Boycott stated, if batsmen are to walk then it has to apply to both sides, and that has never been the way that the Aussies play. They always wait for the ump. The ICC will have to have a look at Aleem Dar though. No professional umpire should have missed the Broad touch, but, as you say down under, dry yer eyes. Dar did an equally appalling call on Trott!

    Cheers

    Bill
     
  4. Admin2

    Admin2 Administrator Staff Member

    The Ashes

    The Ashes is a men's Test cricket series played biennially between England and Australia. The term originated in a satirical obituary published in a British newspaper, The Sporting Times, immediately after Australia's 1882 victory at The Oval, its first Test win on English soil. The obituary stated that English cricket had died, and that "the body will be cremated and the ashes taken to Australia".[1] The mythical ashes immediately became associated with the 1882–83 series played in Australia, before which the English captain Ivo Bligh had vowed to "regain those ashes". The English media therefore dubbed the tour the quest to regain the Ashes.

    After England won two of the three Tests on the tour, a small urn was presented to Bligh in Melbourne.[2] The contents of the urn are reputed to be the ashes of a wooden bail, and were humorously described as "the ashes of Australian cricket".[3] It is not clear whether that "tiny silver urn" is the same as the small terracotta urn given to Marylebone Cricket Club (MCC) by Bligh's widow after his death in 1927.

    The Ashes urn has never been the official trophy of the series, having been a personal gift to Bligh,[4] but replicas of the urn have often been held aloft by the winning team as a symbol of their victory. Since the 1998–99 Ashes series, the Ashes Trophy, a Waterford Crystal trophy modelled on the Ashes urn, has been presented to the winners of the series. Irrespective of which side holds the trophy, the original urn remains in the MCC Museum at Lord's. It has been taken to Australia twice to be put on touring display, as part of the Australian Bicentenary celebrations in 1988 and to accompany the Ashes series in 2006–07.

    Ashes series have usually consisted of five Tests, hosted in turn by England and Australia approximately every two years. The Ashes are regarded as being held by the team that most recently won the series. If the series is drawn, the team that currently holds the Ashes "retains" the trophy.

    There have been 73 Ashes series. Australia have won 34 and retained six times from draws (40); England have won 32 and retained once (33).

    1. ^ Wendy Lewis; Simon Balderstone & John Bowan (2006). Events That Shaped Australia. New Holland. p. 75. ISBN 978-1-74110-492-9.
    2. ^ "Summary of Events". The Illustrated Australian News. Melbourne. 20 February 1884. p. 18.
    3. ^ "Cricket". The Mercury. Hobart. 4 June 1908. p. 8.
    4. ^ "The Ashes History". Lords. Archived from the original on 9 October 2018. Retrieved 21 December 2018.
     
  5. Deka08

    Deka08 Active Member

    "and that has never been the way that the Aussies play."
    Adam Gilchrist is one who springs to mind - walked without question always. and most players (not just Aussies) wouldn't have hung around to look at the ump with that thick an edge.
    The shame is, as stated by english press, is that the spirit of cricket is well and truly dead. There is now more animosity than honour in the game which makes it just hollow to watch sometimes. A good test match can be overshadowed by this sort of thing.

    "Dar did an equally appalling call on Trott."
    Third ump tech faults helped screw Trott, not just dar.


    311 to chase over a day and a half. C'mon aussie.
     
  6. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    Well, OK, I'll give you Gilchrist but he played like an Englishman. Broad looks like an angel and behaves like Ponting - to mention just one. Cricket was (and hopefully still is) the last professional game where a sense of honour prevails, but take yourself back to Lilee and Thompson (the latter by far the better bowler in my view) who sent down bouncer after bouncer and the Aussie habit of 'sledging'. In fairness, look at the Bodyline series to balance the matter out.

    The question remains, do you walk, or wait for the ump?

    Rowlocks to Aussie!

    Pommy Bastard Bill
     
  7. Deka08

    Deka08 Active Member

    Walk - if it is definitely out.

    I should have gone on a bit further in my last post. The Aussies are not the nicest folk on the cricket pitch. Gilly is an exception.
    I was also going to point out the iffy grey area of the catch near the ground and my thoughts about it being maybe acceptable, and lo it happens to the skipper no less. Egg on my face.
    As for Lillee/Thomson, yes precedent set in body line. I like to think of any sport being played as hard as possible while still being able to have a drink and a 'larf' after wards with your opposition. it happened a few years ago with warnie and KP n flinty and your press caned them for being too friendly. Doesn't happen too often now.

    Anyway our number 1 batsman is in. 311 here we come.
    Cheers Bill
     
  8. stevewells

    stevewells Active Member

    It is an unfortunate side effect of professional sport - drugs, diving not walking the list goes on and on. I don't believe for one minute that any of the Australians would have walked and I think Stuart broad knew that. Add that to the two already disgraceful decisions against England the day before and you can see that Broad was probably evening up the score - like I say the less attractive side of professional sport. Still it's wound everyone up so will make the series even more exciting.
     
  9. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    I don't remember the British media being down on Flintoff and Warnie for being too friendly - but then, I don't read the Sun, the Mirror or the Star (red top gutter press)! I do remember the 2005 series being the best and hardest fought that I've ever seen, and I would say that even if the result had gone the other way. The two pieces of sportsmanship that I most remember was Freddy Flintoff comforting a grieving Brett Lee who had played a magnificent rearguard innings, nearly taking the match, when his opposite number was out, and Warnie congratulating Peiterson who played the innings which undoubtedly won the match for England. And Flintoff and Warnie were the two most competitive players on either side.

    I deplore 'professionalism' in the negative sense but I suppose that it is inevitable when vast sums of money ride on the result. Maybe that is why Warnie and Freddy got on so well, both being natural rebels. (I believe that the Aussies and pommies still have a drink together after the game/series. It must be nice for the Aussies to have some decent - warm - ale!)

    Cheers

    Bill
     
  10. Deka08

    Deka08 Active Member

    Bill, I think we are talking about the same thing. I have no problem with that series and its iconic moments of sportsmanship and cricket. We remember it for the right reasons. I was only recalling what the aussie press reported that the british press reported about..., oh well, never mind.
    Back to the cricket. A win to the poms. Possibly (I hope not) our only real chance at a win, because if that is the best the poms have to offer then I am amazed, and we may well be in for an interesting series.
    Bring on game 2 (and more pain and heart ache for the diehards)
    I take my beers ice cold, Bill, even on a windy freezing day, should we ever meet. I'll keep one on top of the water heater for you.

    Cheers
     
  11. MicW

    MicW Active Member

    Congratulations to the poms on a good win in what was an excellent test match. Such excitement and tension in the "boring" (I think not) version of the game.

    On the Stuart Broad issue, we can't have it both ways. I recall a series in Australia a year or two back when Michael Clark stood his ground after an appeal for caught behind. Replays showed the ball had nearly hit the middle of the bat. Thankfully on that occasion the umpire gave him out. Broad does however strike me as a bit of a grub. I noted his tactic just before the lunch break last night when he removed his shoe for no reason in an attempt to ensure no further over be bowled. Call it "sportsmanship" if you like but it is not how I teach my children to act. I guess it's the price we pay for professionalism.

    As regards the third umpire referral system, it has me beat why you only get 2 chances. Why is that the magic number? Concern about slowing the days play? Maybe more action on lengthy on field tactical discussions would be the better option for reducing time wastage. If the technology is available why not use it? If "over appealing" is the resulting tactic then punish accordingly.

    Questionable actions and decisions which are verified by countless replays often leave a stale taste in the mouth when the outcome of the game is affected.

    Anyway, bring on the next match and hopefully a leveler for the series with the Aussies getting a win!!!
     
  12. Peter

    Peter Well-Known Member

    Irrespective of the result, the 1st Test was true test cricket. I love all forms of the sport, but Test cricket has to be my favourite. Look out for me at Durham on days 2,3 and 4!
     
  13. NWhite

    NWhite Member

    I had to go to bed with 40 runs to get as the thrill of seeing victory was outweighed by the potential for depression if we lost.. and so it goes. Deka08 is very much a serious sports fan. Tipping comp supremo!
     
  14. Paul Bowles

    Paul Bowles Well-Known Member

    Most un-australian thing ive heard all day! ;)
     
  15. Deka08

    Deka08 Active Member

    True Whitey. Your support, or lack of it, could have been what tipped it against us. I understand the depression though, if anyone does - I do, green and gold all the way. But cheer up, we haven't hit the lows for the length of time that the poms had in the 90s and 00s, and I have a vibe in my toes that the tide will turn in the next year or so. The post Olympic honeymoon for the Brits will wear off and then we will all be on somewhat equal footing. Hope all is going well mate.

    Peter, tickets for day 4? I hope for your sake we don't fall in the hole like India, South Africa etc, and provide you with a contest.

    With regards to DRS, when all the dust settles, I am reminded of Wayne Bennetts words - if you are relying on one call to go your way then there are probably a number of other things that you haven't done well through out the game. Our middle order could have batted better, we could have fielded better, we could have bowled better. I don't like the decisions, but we could have done better in other areas and so could the poms.

    Cheers all
     
  16. Peter

    Peter Well-Known Member

    "Peter, tickets for day 4? I hope for your sake we don't fall in the hole like India, South Africa etc, and provide you with a contest"

    I fully expect day 4 will see some action, although judging from the 1st test, both teams seemed to have forgotten Test cricket and were playing the one day code!
     
  17. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    Thanks Deka & Mic. It was, as the Duke of Wellington said of the Battle of Waterloo, A damn close run thing (pun not intended). Anyway, a big well done to Haddin; if only Agar had done another miracle for you!

    Deka, when I last went to Oz, I took half a dozen bottles of Old Peculier (heavy, dark, 6% ale) to spread about as a kind of missionary activity. The customs were kind enough to let it through despite my trying to bribe the bloke with a bottle. All the Aussies loved it, although I must confess they did bang it in the fridge first. They also said that only one Aussie (Paul Hogan) drinks Fosters and they have to pay him to do it!

    I think it likely that England will rest Finn and put in Bresnan who can bat a bit as well as bowl for the Lord's test.

    Let me know if you're ever over here, I'm not a million miles from Edgbaston and have contacts who can get tickets.

    Cheers

    Bill
     
  18. Peter

    Peter Well-Known Member

    They have stuck with Finn..........................
     
  19. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    Mmmm, possibly a mistake. We shall see.

    Bill
     
  20. NWhite

    NWhite Member

    I have always been brittle when it comes to close finishes. I make no apologies for taking my sport too seriously. It has been a few tough years for the Australian sports fan. At least the Maroons can take the edge off domestically this week!
     
  21. Peter

    Peter Well-Known Member

    Finns dropped for Bres.

    Good call i would say, the Ozzies were looking to target Finn, so Bres might keep them occupied for a session or 2.
     
  22. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    omg!!!!!!!!
     

    Attached Files:

  23. NWhite

    NWhite Member

    Plain ridiculous.
     
  24. stevewells

    stevewells Active Member

    Nice to see you blokes showing up and making a fight of it at last though.
     
  25. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    They're doing well (curses)!

    The umpiring is puzzling to say the least. Why use technology if it doesn't (apparently) work?:confused:

    All the best

    Pommie Bastard Bill
     
  26. stevewells

    stevewells Active Member

    The technology works - those that interpret it don't!!!!!! Apparently!
     
  27. Paul Bowles

    Paul Bowles Well-Known Member

    Clarkey!!!! What a knock!
     
  28. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    Great batting, and a good call to bat first.

    Hey Dekka, why didn't Warner show Broad how to walk when getting a thick edge? It's rumoured over here that Warner threatened to hit Clarke if he refused to refer!

    Anyway, if there's any justice it should be an Aussie win unless England pull a great second innings out of the bag. However, the weather forecast is for rain from Sunday.

    Keep that beer on the water heater for me!

    Cheers

    Pommie Bastard Bill
     
  29. Deka08

    Deka08 Active Member

    Haha. I watched that piece of idiocy. Warner's not one for walking, more one for punching, speaking, acting, anything dumb before engaging brain. I was in as much disbelief as any normal non biased person around the world. At the end of the day it cost us and not you guys, and gave you all a good larf. No justice for Australia. Rain or England to ruin game.
    Beer moved to fire place.

    Cheers
     
  30. neilnev

    neilnev Active Member

    G'day sports.

    Welcome to my birth place - sunny Manchester. Old Mancunian joke - you know when it's summer - the rain's warm. Can't understand the issues re: DRS - just the interpretation. It should only be used to overturn an overtly incorrect decision. If in doubt, go with the umpire. As to walking - much as I love Gilly - an absolute genleman - what if you walk for 9 reasonably obvious decisions and on the 10th occasion that's a little iffy, you stand your ground - likely that the umpires will give you the benefit of the doubt. Good logic re: lbw - if the computerised trajectory of the ball looks as if it just clipping a stump/bail, that isn't sufficient to change a decision. What is just wrong is that a) rank bad decisions e.g. Broad, Kawaja are getting through despite the technology and b) limiting the number of referrals. I repeat, DRS should just be used to overturn overtly incorrect decisions.

    As to the games, touch of optimist/pessimist here. Test one - England won but could have lost - not much between the sides apart from Jimmy Anderson's bowling (and Agar's batting - I suspect that will be a one off). Test two - more about Australia's poor batting than England's good batting. Test 3 - Australia were on top all the way (unless you're a real England optimist - the weather probably saved Australia from going 3 - 0 down).

    Still being the fair-minded british sportsman that I am, let's just crush the bastards (as they have delighted in doing to us in the past).

    On a far more important cricket issue, despite the fact that we're going to be rained off today, it's still looking good for the best team playing at Old Trafford - Lancashire - to return to the 1st division where thay belong. As far as I'm concerned, if I dare use the words of Carole King (or more likely Gerry Goffin), it might as well rain until September (despite the fact that Yorkshore would be county champions - bit of a yin/yan there).

    Back to the NHS podiatry crisis management now! No worries!
     
  31. Deka08

    Deka08 Active Member

    I perhaps haven't made my position clear on walking. It has nothing to do with broad, ponting, Warner (sigh - do I have to put him in this?) it is about cricket being the honest gents game, where in MY ideal NAIVE mind, professionals still walk and everyone (teammates) be comfortable with it. It is such a shame that this series will be remembered for DRS/umpiring, than a good enjoyable series. Not the best ashes I have seen, but still good. Yes, I have delighted in past crushings, it's what keeps me sane in these dark times. Can't help with crisis management though.
    Back to the game, 2 for 19. Lets sort this before lunch.
    Cheers
     
  32. neilnev

    neilnev Active Member

    In my heart, I agree re: walking. I find one of the most heartening acts of sportsmanship occurs in the professional game of snooker when the players "call themselves" as having feathered the ball without being spotted by the ref. Sadly, we live in a world which is full of out and out cheats - just look at the so-called professional premiership footballers diving about as if shot by snipers. Welcome to the 21st century where cheating is part of the game.

    As to the state of the game on the pitch, I've been around long enough to know that Old Trafford is a quick drying pitch - after all, we've had plenty of practice. Maybe we should do what the Aussies did in the 1956 Old Trafford "Laker" test and appeal against the sawdust. KPs's in now - we should have it won by tea :dizzy:

    Most importantly is that despite the weather, my beloved Lancashire have managed to complete an innings win at Leicester and as Northants are not yet playing, we should have a very healthy lead by the end of the day.

    Back to the crises now (I mean NHS management, not England or Australia - but as KP has just gone........)
     
  33. stevewells

    stevewells Active Member

    since when have the australians played it as an honest gents game! Contradiction of term that! ;)
     
  34. neilnev

    neilnev Active Member

    You just gotta love the Manchester weather. Just saved you Aussies from another whipping - now we'll have to settle for 9-0.

    G'day sport!
     
  35. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    Be fair. This is the first English weather of the series. Up to now it has been Aussie weather pushing 30 degrees!

    Maybe the umpires will see better without the sweat in their eyes!

    Cheers

    Bill
     
  36. Deka08

    Deka08 Active Member

    Mutter mumble grumble, congratulations, mumble mutter lousy weather, gnashing teeth, kicking stones.

    Cheers
     
  37. stevewells

    stevewells Active Member

    You might still give a good account of yourselves and its not too long to wait before you get another crack! - shame the weather intervened - hope it hasn't killed the series
     
  38. NWhite

    NWhite Member

    Nice to avoid a clean sweep. Would have been better to do so with a win rather then a weather related draw. Might sell a few more tickets for the November's series.
     
  39. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    What I like about the Ashes, and the Aussies, is that it's different from all other cricket and the Aussies never say die. Another big innings from Clarkie (and Agar) could easily turn it around for you. Siddle's looking very dangerous and Lyons can get good turn from a pitch which cuts up on day 3-5. Cook has been slightly vulnerable, Trott - usually reliable - likewise and you never know with KP. Can be brilliant but not at his best early on in the innings. Bell (Warwickshire man) still looks sound though and England aren't too bad down the order, but then, neither is Australia.

    I'm going to a limited over game at Edgbaston in October - last time I went to see the Aussies it p****d down, still a good days drinking though!

    Cheers

    Pommie Bastard Bill
     
  40. neilnev

    neilnev Active Member

    My highlight of this Ashes series is Warney's complaint that England have been arrogant - pot, kettle, black! Up yours, Warney!
     
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