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Anatomy help

Discussion in 'Teaching and Learning' started by Nikki10, Apr 27, 2010.

  1. Nikki10

    Nikki10 Active Member


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    Dear all,

    Any suggestions on useful resources to learn lower limb anatomy?

    Thank you
     
  2. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Nikki


    http://www.primalpictures.com/Foot_and_Ankle.aspx

    Tip, try and get a deal from them ( I did and got one)

    It is a great resource.
    BTW I believe they do a "student" entry level as well I seem to recall my Neice telling me ( studying Osteopathy)
    Hope that helps
    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2010
  3. Good call Del, I'd forgotten about that. I've got the foot and ankle one, but not the rest of the lower limb.
     
  4. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Si

    Yep that's all I have but as I said they do a "cut down version of the complete works aimed at students at a much reduced cost which I understand is very worthwhile.

    Whichever way you go its an excellent resource for A& P

    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
  5. drsarbes

    drsarbes Well-Known Member

    Hi Simon:
    You need a cadaver.
    Steve
     
  6. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    He's got me ( the next best thing) :D:D

    Actually that's not a bad call either,

    Nikki can you not try to establish contact with your local teaching hospital and see if you can get access to cadaveric study in the morbid pathology department?.

    Shouldn't be too much of a problemo ??

    Cheers
    D;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2010
  7. Doesn't stack well on a bookshelf.
     
  8. Steve, it wasn't me asking for the help.
    I've played with many cadaver's in my time. I used to teach anatomy and dissection and was one of the license holders of the anatomy lab in Plymouth, thanks all the same for your suggestions though guys.

    Out of interest Del, the University here, in their wisdom decided they didn't need an anatomy lab to teach medics let alone shamopodists.
     
  9. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Neither do I :D
    D;)
     
  10. Nikki10

    Nikki10 Active Member

    Thank u all for ur suggestions,will take them on board.
     
  11. Nikki10

    Nikki10 Active Member

    I am not too keen on cadaver though but thanks anyway.
     
  12. Personally, I think that the best way to learn morbid anatomy is through working with cadavers. The problem with books, physical models, DVD's and CD ROM's is that they seldom show the anatomical variation, nor do they allow a proper sense of touch.
     
  13. Nikki you can still do a stack of learning without the cadaver. get a mate from class, boyfriend, girlfriend etc that does not mind you using them as body and identify clinical landmarks, muscle, muscle actions. Have a book with you but get the practice on a live subject.
     
  14. Again, another good call- I like this: http://www.ombregt.be/engels/sch01533.htm
     
  15. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Si

    Ahh that'll be the modern NHS then and why a patient of mine ( a consultant Psychiatrist who used to work in diabetic education for patients) now finds herself mentoring medical students on how to smile and talk to patients ( a bit more than that) but attitude is the main factor :mad:.

    This follows them for 3 years of their training :confused:

    I think with this in mind the "arse form the elbow" which is apparent in many instances throughout the NHS is so prevalent ( don't get me started Si Pleeeeeeeeeeze)

    My Colleague who is one of several that works with me in my practice is a retired ( last year) A & E consultant that ran the "Toe clinic" for 25 years doing and teaching nail surgery to chiropodists( as they were then) and junior hospital doctors.

    The clinic was lost in financial cuts and now we have a breed of doctor that is clueless as to the why's and wherefores of the need and skills.

    Glad I'm nearly the cadaver mate and not an upstart in the profession :rolleyes:

    Cheers
    D;)
     
  16. Nikki10

    Nikki10 Active Member

    Michael I like your suggestion, that's how we practise at uni aswell.
     
  17. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    Nikki,

    Not sure where you are based but if it is near London and you change your mind about the cadavers then let me know - there is a very good course being run at the moment by the anatomists in the dissection lab at Kings College London; they intend to run it again due to its popularity from what I gather. It's one afternoon every other week (£45 per afternoon). I've done 2 this month - first one was hip and thigh, second one was knee and leg (and next one in 2 weeks time will be ankle and foot). Personally I find it more enlightening this time round than I did 10 years ago when I did it in my first year. The learning never stops.
     
  18. Nikki10

    Nikki10 Active Member

    Thanks Ian,

    The fact that its foot and ankle this time its more appealing as its the main focus of our clinical exams.I have never experienced cadaver anatomy that's why I am a bit reluctant but will keep it in mind.
     
  19. If that was on my door step, they'd have my money right now. You cannot beat going in and touching it. Jealous smilies are lacking here. If you got more than one cadaver to look at Ian, do some facet counting on the STJ's...
     
  20. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Nikki

    Then be very sure before you engage in the procedure.

    You sound very young ( nothing wrong with that ;) ) but your emotions are very intense at that age ( they do mellow with age I promise) so if you are unsure DONT DO IT !!!!

    There is nothing worse than flash backs for things you experience that have a severe negative emotional effect:eek:

    Cadaveric study are for those that can cope with the sight / smell / sounds of dissection. The likes of Simon , Steve , Kevin and I ( many others included).

    With feet ( not like a surgeon) there is no real need to follow through on this course when books will do.

    Don't lose sleep hun ;)

    Do what you feel is right and suits you, keep learning and everything will fall into place later in your career, and perhaps you wont have the likes of Isaacs ,Ian and Simon on your back in the future ( unlike me) :D :D

    Be Lucky

    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
  21. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    We usually have 4-5 to work with. When you say facet counting do you mean along these lines? Happy to oblige and report back.
     
  22. That'll be the one.
     
  23. Boots n all

    Boots n all Well-Known Member

    l found the DVD by Robert Acland the best, shows point of origin, point of insertion and the nerves that control each muscle, although my son tells me nothing bets a real cadaver, l will pass and leave that up to him.

    The DVD comes in 5 parts:rolleyes: if you cant afford the whole lot in one hit, maybe start with DVD2 "The lower Extremity"


    Aclands DVD Atlas of the Human Anatomy, Lippincott Williams & Wilkins

    After posting, found that is what Simons link points towarda also..., well, now you have two referrals for that DVD, LOL
     
  24. Lab Guy

    Lab Guy Well-Known Member

    Simon, I have a copy in very good condition of Sarrafian SK. Anatomy of the foot and ankle: descriptive, topographic

    We can trade if you like. I would send you my book at no charge with free shipping. In turn, I would like some private advice on biomechanical questions that you can answer by email. This will not take very much of your time. You may PM me.

    Steven
     
  25. Ninjasox

    Ninjasox Active Member

    If you can get your hands on this software, it's a lifesaver http://www.dynatomy.biz/
    Made all those lectures spent half asleep a lot more understandable and applicable. All the physio's and pods used at uni, made our lives a lot easier. Pity there's nothing like this for bmx
     
  26. bluefish

    bluefish Member

    Thanks for the recommendations
    Acland's Anatomy is great im going to try and watch the whole set before Uni starts.:D
     
  27. Dr. Bates

    Dr. Bates Member

    Netter's "Concise Atlas of Orthopaedic Anatomy" published by Saunders is EXCELLENT, not only for anatomy but common pathology and pathomechanics too. You could pass the ABPS oral exam knowing only what is in this little book. Look at Facebook Podiatry Boards site for more. Dwight L. Bates, DPM, DABPS
     
  28. Rob Kidd

    Rob Kidd Well-Known Member

    The key to anatomy is not to try and learn it, it is to understand it. So many go wrong here. I have even known one ex-Australian podiatry academic tell me: "it is only geography - tell them to learn it". A shamefull attitude from one who should have known better. You need to think 4th dimensionally, and then it makes sense. [length =1, breadth =2, height =3, TIME=4] Time, in this context is either embryological or evolutionary, depending upon the issue in front of you. An example: Why does the femoral nerve arize from the back od the lumbar plexus, yet supply the front of the limb? Why does the obturator nerve arise from the front of the lumbar plexus, yet supply the back (at least compared to the femoral)?. This is not the case with the upper llimb supply, why the lower? Now think fourth dimensionally, and look at the manner the whole lower limb rotates through 180' at about 6-8 weeks. What was at the back, is now at the front. This does not happen in the upper limb. Do you see? That thinking 4th dimensionally explains so much. - that is but one example. Start from the embryology, and work out. Rob
     
  29. twirly

    twirly Well-Known Member

    Hi all,

    Some worthwhile cadaverous anatomy on you tube too:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6RDbkW68bo&feature=related

    Nikki,

    If you decide on playing 'spot the landmark' with a friend. I advise against a permanent marker to draw on the dermatome distribution. Took me a week to wash it all off ;)

    Must admit though I still remember................

    :drinks

    Regards,

    Mandy
     
  30. BestyPod

    BestyPod Active Member

    Hi

    If you are after basic anatomy, then I would recommend the Anatomy colouring book. I got mine on Amazon and it seperates the leg into the relevant compartments, so its not too much information to take in at any point.
    I'm studying my 1st year of Podiatry at the moment and I'm mid way through a 10 week dissection course at Leicester Uni. I would highly recommend this form of learning if you get the opportunity. Yes, there is a bit of an odd smell but you soon get used to it and you also tend to forget that you are working on bodies as you get so engrossed with what you're doing.
    I'm also using Merrimans anatomy of the lower limb, it's also proving very useful........

    Not sure if I've been any help, but I thought I'd give it a shot.


    Abi :drinks
     
  31. Verdantlily

    Verdantlily Member

    What fantastic advice Rob. As a former osteopathy student I agree about the 'understanding' thing.

    I couldn't remember a thing about anatomy till right at the end of my 1st year and the reason it all 'fell into place' was bacause I'd been exposed to enough information in many forms (anatomy texts, lectures, models, physiology, embryology, examining each other, drawing on each other (very inaccurately sometimes), moving our own joints and each others, talking and problem solving etc.). Its a kind of chicken and egg situation - you have snippets of imperfect knowledge that is completely forgettable but when you tie it together to try and solve a particular problem further information is absorbed and the original snippets finally start to have some meaning and so on. Well, thats the way I learn anyway.

    My advice is to expose yourself to many different ways of explaining anatomy and don't despair! Good luck.
     
  32. Lee

    Lee Active Member

    Another good resource would be your local podiatric surgery unit - just contact them and arrange to shadow some outpatient and theatre sessions. You will get to see both surface and surgical anatomy.
     
  33. Nikki:

    The best way to learn lower extremity anatomy is to take a good course on it and then do cadaver surgery labs while taking the course. That is how we are trained here in the United States on foot and lower extremity anatomy at the Podiatric Medical Colleges.

    However, don't worry about now knowing everything yet.....I've been a podiatrist for over 27 years now and I'm still learning anatomy....:drinks
     
  34. Rob Kidd

    Rob Kidd Well-Known Member


    No worries. The Holy Grail of anatomy really starts at the pharyngeal Arches (often incorrectly referred to as the Branchial Arches). These give the most exquisite examples of fourth dimensional thinking. Ask your self: why does the tensor tympani muscle have a different berve supply from the stapedius, when they are about 4mm apart (one is trigeminal, the other facial)? Now note that they originate from different pharangeals arches - 1st and second, triigeminal is from 1st, facial from second)), together with their respective ossicle. It isn;t just podiatric anatomy that requires 4th dimension thinking - it is anatomy, full stop. Now here is a teaser for you: why does the left reccurent larangeal nerve (branch of the vagus) "recur" about the aortal arch, while the right rl nerve recurs about the brachiocephalic trunk? Answer is because the BC trunk was originally the "right aorta", that regresssed (Left and right were gill arteries in a previous life). SEE? it all makes perfect sense with 4th dimensional thinking. Rob
     
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