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Legal question

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by Catfoot, Jul 24, 2015.

  1. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member


    Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.
    Here's a puzzler for all you legal beagles out there !

    I provide chiropody services for several care homes where the residents are there because of varying degrees of mental health and other neurological problems ( eg autism, severe epilepsy, etc.)

    Some time ago at one establishment my services were terminated on the grounds of cost and the manager engaged an FHP who was cheaper.

    I have now been contacted by the relatives of one client who is not satisfied with the treatment they have received and wish to re-engage my services.

    ( The client is detained under the Deprivation of Liberty legislation.)

    Before I do this ( and I'm not sure that I do want to get involved) is it:

    1. Advisable to ascertain whether or not the relative or the manger is acting in Loco Parentis?
    2. Do I need to inform the manager of the home or the FHP about this?
    3. Would it be better to tell the relative that as the FHP is now treating their relative they should raise their concerns with them.
    4. Or should I tell the relative that it's none of my responsibility anymore and suggest they ask the FHP to refer them to whatever Pod they normally refer to?

    Thanks in advance :confused:
     
  2. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    tttttttt
     
  3. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    take it easy walk away , its only one fee never return to the scene of adefeet. not your problem keep your life simple:drinks
     
  4. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    Thanks fishpod,

    I was thinking myself that 4. was probably the best option !:D
     
  5. Simon Ross

    Simon Ross Active Member

    Catfoot,

    You say that they got rid of you because the FHP was cheaper.

    You could point this out to them and remind them of what wise man Gucci said,

    "The bitterness of poor workmanship is long remembered after the sweetness of a low price is forgotten."

    It would be good just to see the look on their faces if you did!
     
  6. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    "
    That's a neat response Simon!

    Unfortunately I won't be able to tell them that, as I have decided that I won't be returning and I'll tell the relative to take up their dissatisfaction with the new provider.

    As fishpod wisely said, life's too short for all these complications :rolleyes:
     
  7. Claire72

    Claire72 Active Member

    Let's hope the patient isn't left suffering with his/her current inadequate treatments....Isn't this an ideal opportunity to re-iterate the need for podiatrists as opposed to FHP in some circumstances? As a relative has asked you to provide treatment (because the actual patient cannot), don't you feel uncomfortable just 'walking away'?

    Claire.
     
  8. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    Claire72,
    I have been in this situation before of managers choosing FHPs over pods because of cost, and have raised concerns with the managers of care homes and also the CQC.

    The answer I usually get from the managers is that the clients have "free choice" and the CQC aren't interested.

    So now I don't get involved except to push the problem back to the person that caused it.

    I already suggested the relatives contact the manager of the home and obtain the contact details of the FHP and raise their concerns with him/her. I have now said that I will be happy to take over the patient's treatment once this episode of care is finished or if the FHP refers them to me directly. Otherwise I can't interfere with another practitioner's treatment.

    I have also told the relatives that FHPs are ethically required to refer on to another practitioner, who is Regulated Under Statute, if they come across anything that is outside their Scope of Practice. If this practitioner hasn't done this then they need reporting to their own Professional Body, whatever that is. Whether or not the relatives will act on this, I have no idea.
     
  9. Johnpod

    Johnpod Active Member

    'I have also told the relatives that FHPs are ethically required to refer on to another practitioner, who is Regulated Under Statute, if they come across anything that is outside their Scope of Practice.'

    This is not correct. FHPs refer to GPs, more experienced FHPs, or a Podiatrist as they see fit. Given that an FHPs scope of practice encompasses anything up to the need of local anaesthesia, you won't be receiving too many referrals from FHPs, Catfoot. Please be sure of your 'facts' before 'educating' anyone else.

    It seems that you have lost work to an FHP - yet again! Unfortunately for you there is no legal question.
     
  10. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    Johnpod,
    Excluding the "other FHPs" in your response the other practitioners are Regulated Under Statute or didn't you know that? And what are these "more experienced" FHPs those that have done 10 days practical training instead of a week? :D

    Perhaps you might like to post a copy of the FHP's Scope of Practice? Or at least point me to where it can be viewed.

    In actual fact I didn't lose out, as the relatives of a patient still wanted me to attend due to an FHP making a pig's ear of the treatment and there is a legal question in there if you were bright enough to see it.

    Sorry you aren't quite up to speed ;)

    PS The Alliance's financial position looks interesting ;- http://companycheck.co.uk/company/04379814/ALLIANCE-OF-PRIVATE-SECTOR-PRACTITIONERS-LIMITED
     
  11. Simon Ross

    Simon Ross Active Member

    Catfoot,

    " Alliance's financial position looks interesting ;- http://companycheck.co.uk/company/04...IONERS-LIMITED"

    Restructuring General Motors was like getting an elephant to tap dance, it was easy, you just had to find the sensitive spots and prod them!"
     
  12. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    :D







    (Five characters)
     
  13. Johnpod

    Johnpod Active Member

    The NHS has forecast a deficit of 2bn GBP in 2015-16. (August 4th)....

    -alongside this I don't have a worry in the world, Catty.

    Your first post in this thread was incorrect. A half-truth is as good as a lie - and coming from you it was intended to be deliberately misleading.

    Your second post in response to correction was entirely unprofessional. What it illustrates is that you will effectively stop at nothing to bask in the outcome of an ill-informed piece of poor legislation created more than a decade ago which just happened to be good for you. Facts are facts, whether you like it, or not. Foot Health Practitioners enjoy autonomous practice. Their scope of practice is wider than yours (lower limb), and covers more than you actually do on a daily basis right up to the need of anaesthesia. You don't need to read it elsewhere because you are reading it here. Foot Health Practitioners have a government approved register as a result of Dept of Health sponsored legislation that just happens to be kept by the Alliance (how did that happen?), now three years established. And fair warning - the PSA can impose a 10,000 GBP fine on you if you continue to detract from the regulatory progress made (makes the HCPC and its 5,000 GBP fine seem rather generous, doesn't it?).

    Simon -sensitive spot on a cat - try boot up * It's a well-known 'fact' that the smell of Catpi55 can make you dream of tap-dancing elephants! Get some fresh air - you'll be alright...
     
  14. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    Johnpod,

    No-one is arguing with you.

    Seeing as you know nothing about me or what I do on a daily basis this ^^^^ isn't just silly, IMO it's nonsense at stratospheric level coupled with a very poor attempt at clairvoyance. I wouldn't give up your day job to have a fortune teller's booth at the Funfair just yet, JP.

    It would also be screamingly funny if it didn't appear to indicate some very dangerous thinking accompanied with delusions of adequacy. I believe it was this sort of thinking that caused you problems before, wasn't it Johnpod ?

    http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Chiropody school's fake doctors faced jail threat.-a093435882

    PS. Where did you say this all-encompassing FHP Scope of Practice can be viewed? :confused:



    “Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.”
    ― George Carlin
     
  15. Johnpod

    Johnpod Active Member

    Trolling out links to maliciously-generated gutter-press more than a decade old does not make your actions or attitudes professional, Catflap - quite the contrary.

    Unlike yourself, I work for posterity. A generation of people have enjoyed a future that they would not otherwise have had as a direct result of action that I have taken, all of which I have done perfectly legally whilst remaining an HCP/HCPC registrant. And here's the clairvoyant bit... there are people yet unborn that will do your job - as registered foot health practitioners. I foresee the time not too far distant when fewer Podiatrists will be employed in NHS podiatry depts (already happening), and when the NHS employs FHPs to fill the gaps in NHS service provision (about to happen). You do no favours to yourself or anyone else by espousing and promoting the blinkered attitudes that you hold. You are out on a limb, Catfood. New professional groups arise, and old professions disappear. All professions are in constant flux. Everything changes, and your somewhat ridiculous stance is unsustainable.

    You can smell where the cat's been...
     
  16. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

  17. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    dear johnpod .i dont know you or what happened all those years ago . but it sounds like you would like to destroy the podiatry profession and replace the whole set up with foot health practitioners. you make the profession sound like the roman empire ie we have no future. I also believe all things change but it is not all doom and gloom , podiatry has a bright future i know that things move slowly so ill watch things deveop when i am retired , the young new blood will carry us forward. The NHS does not want to fill in the gaps it does not want to fund social care so i believe the unregistered sector will do well in the private sector but i am sure ccgs will not fund them this nhs funding thing is an area i have expertise in and i have access to the decision makers and they dont hold with your view at this time.
     
  18. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    Johnpod,
    You can bluster and shout all the self-promoting rhetoric you like, but from this side of the litterbox it doesn't look good for FHPs.

    The NHS won't be employing them anytime soon ( and why would an autonomous practitioner want to work for someone else in the first place? ) because they are too expensive.

    The NHS use Third Sector Providers instead.

    Here's how it works ;-

    Grandad can't cut his toe-nails so he goes to see the GP. The GP refers him to an Age UK Clinic. At the clinic he buys a pair of nail clippers from Age UK for 6 quid and a bottle of gigasept to sterilize them with. They he goes to see the Age UK (unpaid) volunteer who cuts his nails and takes 12 quid off him, which goes to Age UK.

    Rinse and repeat every 6/8 weeks with all profits going to Age UK.

    If Grandad has a problem the volunteer can't deal with, then he get referred to an private pod to get it sorted.

    This why some FHPs in my area are charging 12 quid for social nail-cutting, in order to try and compete.

    Sad innit. :rolleyes:
     
  19. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    catfoot you have summed up what happens perfectly . NHS train age uk volunteer for one.3 hr session they work for free age uk director gets larger salary hey ho top bananna. result nhs do not want more salaried staff nuf said.
     
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