Welcome to the Podiatry Arena forums

You are currently viewing our podiatry forum as a guest which gives you limited access to view all podiatry discussions and access our other features. By joining our free global community of Podiatrists and other interested foot health care professionals you will have access to post podiatry topics (answer and ask questions), communicate privately with other members, upload content, view attachments, receive a weekly email update of new discussions, access other special features. Registered users do not get displayed the advertisements in posted messages. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our global Podiatry community today!

  1. Have you considered the Clinical Biomechanics Boot Camp Online, for taking it to the next level? See here for more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Have you considered the Clinical Biomechanics Boot Camp Online, for taking it to the next level? See here for more.
Dismiss Notice
Have you liked us on Facebook to get our updates? Please do. Click here for our Facebook page.
Dismiss Notice
Do you get the weekly newsletter that Podiatry Arena sends out to update everybody? If not, click here to organise this.

"The surgeons who saw feet in half, and aren't even real doctors!"

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by NewsBot, Aug 31, 2015.

  1. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1

    Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.
    The DailyMail again:
    The surgeons who saw feet in half ? and aren?t even real doctors! Children?s author Joyce Dunbar seven-year ordeal is a grim warning to ANYONE considering routine bunion surgery
     
  2. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    In the States you have the significant advantage of not having the Daily Mail (or the Sun)!

    Bill
     
  3. There is the National Enquirer, Bill, but that is still a few rungs up the literary ladder than the Daily Mail. I would think a professional body that doesn't bend over and assume the position when the big boys come to play with their baseball bats is another factor..
     
  4. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    HI mark just a comment from a daily mail reader. and are not even real doctors. Unfortunately this is a true fact. I do not want to debate whether or not pods should be surgeons that is not my place.BUT Pods in the uk are not medically qualified an inconvenient fact but factually true.
     
  5. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    How many British 'doctors' are real doctors? A doctrate is the highest award a university can give. Most 'doctors' are batchelors of medicine and batchelors of surgery ie. a similar level to pods. The debate is around the qualification of podiatric surgeons, not of doctors. Since you have made your incorrect view known on this site, will you now write to correct your 'newspaper's' incorrect view? :deadhorse:

    W J Liggins
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2015
  6. Rob Kidd

    Rob Kidd Well-Known Member

    For the millionth time: Bachelor = Worker, Master = overseer, Doctor = teacher. And again for the millionth time, the novelty of being called doctor wears off by day break. Some people need a proper education............................................... And to Bill, she who must be obeyed, says pour something cold and sit back. We are currently in South west ozz testing their substance, life is a bugger. Ros send her regards
     
  7. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    So Bill your point is . pod surgeons are doctors and all daily mail readers are evil. most lay people think a doctor is a person who attended medical school and contunued with thier profession and now treats pts in a surgery they do not think doctors are people in possession of a phd. i dont really have a view on this i just see facts and the fact is pods are not doctors in the uk anyway.
     
  8. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    "Most lay people think". Possibly, possibly not. I had hoped that contributors to this site did, and could use English with correct spelling and grammar, but then I've been wrong in the past and seemingly am wrong now.

    W J Liggins
     
  9. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    A common thing on this site . when a poster disagrees with an obvious fact that cannot be disputed they abuse the other person ie your grammar is rubbish you cannot spell bla bla bla . that may be the case but lay people do think doctors are medical doctors you know it and i know it, so not possibly rather definitley.ps my point is correct and my grammar still remains poor . So because my grammar needs improvment my point of view has less validity.?
     
  10. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    Your spelling also remains poor. Unfortunately, if you fail to express yourself coherently, you will find that educated people will find it difficult to accept the validity of your argument. Have you really been awarded a degree? - Kindly meant.

    WJL
     
  11. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    The validity of my argument is that you are not a medical doctor. Apologies for my lazy typing . Your argument is you have excellent typing skills so I must agree with your point of view , because you are a superior being .Repeat after me I am not medically qualified and this may scare some of the population when you tell them you are going to perform complicated bone surgery on them. It's a point of view the Mail holds Many doctors hold many surgeons hold. These people are entitled to their view as are you. I was just playing devils advocate. I wish podiatrist surgery had taken off I know many people who have passed theory exams and completed their mentor ship but have never landed a job as a pod surgeon at least 5 I know have given up altogether . I am lead to believe there are around 50 practising pod surgeons in the UK none in the Scottish NHS. So in the last 20 years we seem to have very few colleagues practising.
     
  12. Lab Guy

    Lab Guy Well-Known Member

    From the UK website, feetforlife.org:

    Podiatrist
    3-4 year University degree in Podiatric Medicine

    Specialist Podiatrist
    2-3 year MSc in The Theory of Podiatric Surgery

    Assessment of professional skills

    Podiatric Surgical Trainee

    3 Year Consultant supervised training

    Final surgical examination

    Specialist Registrar in Podiatric Surgery

    3 year Specialist training to consolidate surgical skills.

    Can apply for a Consultant post as a lead clinician.

    A Minimum of 11 years Specialist Training


    I think the UK Podiatric Surgeons are extremely well trained and qualified to perform Podiatric Surgery. They are not medical doctors, but they are in fact highly trained licensed surgical specialists of the foot just as the USA Podiatrists are.

    Complications will happen to Podiatric Surgeons and "Real Doctors" alike. It is always unfortunate when complications happen but unless your God, they will happen. It is sad that the Mirror printed such as slanted article creating untrue beliefs in the minds of the readers.

    Steven
     
  13. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    Thanks Steve. My issue is that people seem to post who have no analytical skills. Questions which Daily Mail readers might ask of their paper include i) why has this article appeared 7 full years after the event ii) whose bye-line is the article under iii) do they have any relationship of any sort with a member of the British Orthopaedic Foot Society iv) why is the language so inflammatory?

    The reason I asked a previous poster about their qualifications was that, as you are aware, even a Bachelor's degree offers said analytical skills, significantly lacking in the article. I spend a fair amount of time now dealing with legal cases, and as you mention, there is no individual, pod or orthopod, who achieves perfect results in every case. However, an in-depth analysis is required when things do not go according to plan, not 'trial by the uninformed' and then comment by the equally uninformed.

    All the best

    Bill
     
  14. Amen to that!:drinks
     
  15. bob

    bob Active Member

    Couldn't resist...

    So, here you have a disgruntled patient who may or may not have been wound up by a competing orthopod. She complains to this clinician's Trust. Gets nowhere (apart from getting a pay out from the NHS litigation authority that we all indirectly pay into to fund this sort of thing). She takes it to the HCPC. Gets nowhere. So then she takes it to the Daily Mail.

    Personally, I think there are various issues here that are wrong in many ways. The trial by media of a clinician who has been investigated by their Trust and the HCPC and found no case to answer is certainly one. The dirty tricks campaign by competing orthopaedic surgeons hiding behind patients and journalists. The repetition of fallacies about podiatric surgery in the national (and thanks to the internet) international media. The lack of recourse for clinicians against patients who have a clear vendetta against them. There but for the grace of god go you and I!!!

    :bash:

    The only people who benefit from the current situation are solicitors and scumbag journalists/ newspapers like this.
     
  16. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    The Daily Mail have issued a correction:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/article-3223804/Clarifications-corrections.html
     
  17. Simon Ross

    Simon Ross Active Member

    I could be wrong, but wasn't there a survey done a few years ago, in which they compared the satisfaction amongst GPs and patients of having foot surgery done by pod surgeons and orthopaedic surgeons. The survey results showed that pod surgeons had better outcomes!

    I could be wrong!
     
  18. bob

    bob Active Member

    Hi Simon,
    I think you are thinking of the Ravi & Helm paper on GP satisfaction? I don't think there is a truly comparative assessment of outcomes between podiatric surgeons and orthopods. This would need careful study design and investment and openness from all concerned. It certainly would be a welcome study from my point of view. I am unaware of any orthopaedic centre auditing their foot and ankle work? The only audit I am aware of is the national joint registry for ankle replacements. Pascom is currently only used by podiatric surgeons as far as I am aware.
    It's a shame that inter-professional rivalry such as this exists - and here is a clear example of how this rivalry has a negative impact on patients and the NHS. I would like to think that without the current/ historic poor relationship between orthopods and podiatric surgeons (and the naturally exploitative British tabloids and associated solicitors) the NHS litigation authority would not have had to waste money on patients like this in without prejudice payments. This guy had a Trust investigation with external assessment by another surgeon and an HCPC investigation and was found to have no case to answer and yet the patient still gets paid off by the NHS LA and has rubbish like this printed about him.
    Best wishes,
    Bob
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
  19. SalsaDi

    SalsaDi Welcome New Poster

    "Questions which Daily Mail readers might ask of their paper include i) why has this article appeared 7 full years after the event ii) whose bye-line is the article under iii) do they have any relationship of any sort with a member of the British Orthopaedic Foot Society iv) why is the language so inflammatory?"


    I would be interested to know the answer to those questions, when I googled the byline author I couldn't find anything. Who is Gabrielle Isaacs?
     
Loading...

Share This Page