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If not, where is Barcelona University? Is this open to anyone, or do you have to be registered on your course? Who will be the course instructors?
Thanks,
Bob
Hello Bob,
Fundació Universitària del Bages (FUB) is at Manresa, a village 30 miles from
Barcelona. FUB is a private college incorporated to the Autonomous University of Barcelona (UAB www.uab.es).
According to them, the inscriptions for MIS course are closed now: http://cursos.fub.edu/index.php?area=2005PODCURSOS. Anyway, the course's language is Spanish. I do not know if it would fit for non-speaking podiatrists. Here you have the info you requested due to course instructors and contents:
Informació sobre el curs Cirugía de mínima incisión (AEMIS)
COORGANITZAT
AEMIS
OBJECTIUS
- Iniciación en los conocimientos básicos de las diferentes técnicas de cirugía de Mínima Incisión en el pie.
- Conocer las técnicas y los criterios de aplicación en las diferentes patologías.
- Puesta en práctica de las técnicas de cirugía de Mínima Incisión sobre cadáver.
ADREÇAT
- Estudiantes de 3er curso de Podología.
- Diplomados en Podología.
ACREDITACIÓ
Expedición de un certificado de asistencia (requisito mínimo de asistencia del 80%).
PROGRAMA
VIERNES 10/02/06
BLOQUE TEÓRICO
Cirugía del primer radio:
- Exostectomía dorso-lateral.
- Técnica Akin.
- Técnica Isham-Reverdin.
- Técnica Wilson.
- Osteotomía de base.
Cirugía de quinto radio:
- Técnicas de quinto varo.
Patología digital:
- Técnicas de partes blandas.
- Osteotomías digitales.
- Artroplastia Stoe.
Patología metatarsal:
- Osteotomías.
- Osteotomía de Haspell.
BLOQUE PRÁCTICO
Técnicas en esqueléticos.
- Aplicación de las diferentes técnicas de Cirugía MIS sobre esqueléticos.
- Prácticas que se realizarán en grupos de 6/7 alumnos dirigidos por un monitor.
SÁBADO 11/02/06
BLOQUE PRÁCTICO
Técnicas en cadáver.
- Aplicación de las diferentes técnicas de Cirugía MIS sobre cadáver.
- Demostración de las técnicas descritas sobre cadáver.
- Prácticas que se realizarán en grupos de 6/7 alumnos dirigidos por un monitor.
Técnicas en cádaver.
- Aplicación de las diferentes técnicas de Cirugía MIS sobre cadáver.
- Prácticas que se realizarán en grupos de 6/7 alumnos dirigidos por un monitor.
DOMINGO 12/02/06
Técnicas en cadáver.
- Aplicación de las diferentes técnicas de Cirugía MIS sobre cadáver.
- Prácticas que se realizarán en grupos de 6/7 alumnos dirigidos por un monitor.
COORDINACIÓ
- Manel Pérez Quirós. Diplomado en Podología. Subdirector y profesor de la Escuela de Podología de la EUCS Manresa.
- Carles Rodríguez Romero. Diplomado en Infermería y Podología. Licenciado en Antropología Social y Cultural. Profesor de Podología de la EUCS Manresa.
PROFESSORAT
- Eduardo Nieto García. Diplomado en Podología. Miembro de AEMIS. Miembro y professor de la AAFAS.
- Carmen Naranjo Ruiz. Diplomada en Podología. Miembro de AEMIS. Miembro y Fellow de la AAFAS.
- José Antonio Teatino. Diplomado en Podología. Miembro de AEMIS. Miembro y Fellow de la AAFAS.
- Santiago Nieto Farrán. Diplomado en Podología. Miembro de AEMIS.
CALENDARI
10, 11 y 12 de febrero del 2006.
DATES DE LA INSCRIPCIÓ
Del 10-10-2005 al 03-02-2006
HORARIS
De 9.00 a 18.30 h.
LLOC
FUB y UAB (Sala de disección).
DURADA
22,5 hores
CRÈDITS
1.5 crèdits
MATRÍCULA
Secretaria de Podología de la Escuela Universitaria de Ciencias de la Salud de Manresa.
C/ Ramon d'Iglésies, 5-7, 08242 Manresa
Horario de Secretaria: de 8 a 14 h. Sílvia Puigdellívol spuigdellivol@fub.edu.
Tel 93 877 44 74 / Fax 93 875 73 55
REQUISITS
Debe hacerse la preinscripción por internet, enviar fotocopia del DNI y comprobante bancario.
OBSERVACIONS
Comida del viernes y sábado incluida en el precio.
We have other venues you can attend if you wish. Go to www.cmifas.co.uk and e-mail us for details of courses in America.
We are in the process of starting courses very close to the UK.
You will need to be a member to attend and there are English speaking tutors.
If you wish to become a member fill in the form on the site. You can then start taking the exams whilst attending cadaver training and eventually become a Podiatric Surgeon specialising in MIS. You will recieve your Fellowship from CMIFAS and AAFAS.
You can also undertake "open" surgery and we can arrange training for this also.
The training is in full swing at the moment.
We have just completed our first cadaver traing course at Barcelona Faculty of Medicine which was excellent.
The fist day consisted of 12 hours of in-depth lectures in techniques.
Day 2 and 3 also 12 hour days consisted of practical training on cadavers.
As far as Mr Reilly's question there are a few procedures which require "open" surgery.
For instance tarsal tunnel release and mortons neurectomy for instance.
But, the majority of procedures are MIS using a Fluoroscan. The techniques are not dangerous as has been posted as they are carried out "within" the capsule, there is no "burning" of bone which has also been suggested as the burrs are used at 25 rpm which means generating a temperature of 38 deg. C maximum.
These are covered in the cadaver training under very experienced Professors of MIS in Spain, USA, together with MD's and DPM's.
The course does not mean the Podiatrist can go away and instantly start these procedures. The course is very intense practically and the theory of the same standard as any other.
Pupillage is also necessary.
Anyone wishing to attend these training sessions should contact the MIS college direct www.cmifas.co.uk, the courses are very cheap, hotels are also very cheap and the spanish people are so friendly. They will go that extra mile to help your training. They do speak English.
We will shortly be updating the site regards the Cadaver course which has just finished where you will see more information.
We can assure everyone that is interested though that the techniques are absolutely mind blowing, outcomes are amazing and we are in the process of compiling the results which will be posted on the site shortly regards outcomes.
MiS was practised in the very early days of the introduction of surgery.However it was very soon realised that although MIS has a very small place in foot surgery generally it was only ever going to be the carrying out of conventional open surgery to a very high standard that would convince the Health Service that podiatric surgeons were worth employing. Now that has happened and there is a recognised route to training as a podiatric surgeon, why on earth are some members of our profession trying to re-invent the wheel? I run a small standalone surgical unit, recognised by all the medical insurers, and I know how difficult it is to keep a small unit up to the standard that would be expected. Where is this minimal incision surgery being carried out and who monitors the standards, for if the standards are less than the norm it will reflect on all of us? Jack Golding
Jack ... a group of practitioners in the UK have apparently "discovered" MIS. I followed these two threads of discussion about it with interest: Debate re minimal invasive surgery The College of Minimal Invasive Foot & Ankle Surgery
They do not appear to be prepared to learn from the history and the mistakes we made going down that path, which is why I found the threads interesting. I can even see the same "personalities" coming out.
The College of MIS will on a regular basis be visiting ALL MIS practitioners and assessing their premises.
The premises will also be inspected BEFORE they can perform any procedures.
Do the society do this ??
Is the premises in Langham Place suitable for "open" surgery as I notice you are also doing PP surgery from there.
The Society inspects premises of SAUs in their peer review system. Medical insurers also carry out periodic inspection of operating facilities.From 07 all podiatry premises are to be inspected by care standards and those carrying out surgery will be required to have such modules as positive airflow a designated infection control officer and all those things that would be required of a regular hospital providing day surgery.Most Society podiatric surgeons carry out thier surgery in private hospitals, however there are still a few SAUs and most of us are certainly aware of the standards required.MIS surgeons will also have to meet those standards.and I would doubt that the potential income would justfy the enormous outlay in training and setting up. So podiatrists should think very carefully before committing to this MIS route. They may be on a mission to nowhere. The Society route to podiatric surgery is a recognised system of training, both in the Health Service and by medical insurers. Logic should tell people that that is the system they should aim for.
Last edited by jack golding : 27th April 2006 at 12:15 PM.
Thank you for the enquiry! The internet is a wonderful thing is it not!!
Actually I only do consulting from Langham Place; I hire the local hospital theatre to do the surgery from. That way not only do I have access to a sterile theatre suite, but I also have access to emergency back-up facilities, defibs, airways, etc.
Please do not fret, we are not going to stop training Pods and others, we are aware of the rules and are ahead of you having a very senior Orthopaedic surgeon /lecturer and professor on board and sorry from an English University to keep us ahead of the rest.
The Society has a detailed syllabus for the training of podiatric surgeon this is approved and in use by the Royal College of Surgeons Edinburgh and Glasgow to train podiatric surgeons.I would not think it unreasonable for the CMIFAS to show us their training schedule if only to show the profession that they are as the claim ahead of the game. The Societys syllabus is avaiable on request.
It is now over twentyfour hours since I requested details of the CMIFAS training syllabus for mis surgeons.No details have been posted? If as they say teaching is being carried out in a British university there should be no problem in letting us know which one.Is CMIFAS more than a fancy website which has little or no idea of where it is leading its membership.or a serious organisation? From what I have seen it is a group of practitioners hellbent on undermining years of solid work put in to establish a credible and sustainable surgical training system and if allowed to flourish will reflect on legitimate podiatric surgeons and with it the profession as a whole
I have looked at the CMIFAS website and what is on there hardly amounts to a serious
syllabus. Is it possible to have a detailed syllabus either by writing to the organisation or you posting it on this website. I think everyone would be interested in knowing with which University you are associated, who is teaching this course and what are their qualifications for doing so, and who is the orthopaedic surgeon who is supporting this maverick group. As you know, the Society's surgical syllabus is readily available. They would also give you a list of examiners and teachers, some of whom are medics, on request.
As I have stated, if you wish more information regards training in MIS then e-mail the college direct. Your query will be passed on to one of our Professors or MD's/DPM's who will gladly reply.
This is no windup just a few podiatrists playing at being surgeons. When the reality hits them and they realise that the cost and problems of treating patients surgically outweighs the small financial benefit they are likely to make, they will wish they had never heard of MIS. Why dont these people think in terms of doing the SCP course. At least if they are sucessful they would then have a career structure as podiatric surgeons
Last edited by Admin : 8th May 2006 at 02:18 PM.
Reason: removed a naughty word
I could have sworn that the 10 or so years of training to be a cons pod surgeon allowed me to understand what i was doing when taking a foot apart and then putting it back togeather.
The reality is that if it was possible to do all foot and ankle surgery by MIS having done a superficial training, wouldnt every one ditch the conventional techniques and have a go!
Have we just all got it wrong? or maybe is it that the MIS has a few problems associated with it.
Why dont these people think in terms of doing the SCP course. At least if they are sucessful they would then have a career structure as podiatric surgeons
WHY!
I chose to train at a Npton Uni NOT Brighton or any other.
If a course is available it is upto the individual to decide which route to take. The SCP has not a monopoly on surgical training.
As far as career structure, this only applies within the NHS. Not all Pods work in the NHS, alot of us got out of this dwindling NHS profession.
As far as cost is concerned many PP's including my own can easily afford the cost, it is also tax deductable.
As I stated in the private response to Jack, if you need to see for yourself the techniques of MIS please feel free to come along to our seminars OR cadaver training. BTW do SCP trainees have cadaver training or are they let loose to make mistakes on live Pts???
Jack also is concerned about the theory of the training! can I say you will not pass this over night it will take around the same length of time as the SCP course if not longer depending on the time you dedicate to it.
MIS is carried out worldwide by Orthopods, Pods and MD's many of which are associated with our college. Key hole surgery is being embraced by all specialities which is what MIS is.
Now we all know that Pod Surgeons are not just left to practice on live patients to make mistakes. Lets just get back to reality here.
The points are:
The College of MIS does not seem to have a robust training system (correct me if I am wrong)
There appears to be little in the way of outside scrutiny
There are significant concerns about the safety and effectivness of these techniques even thought quite a few might practice them. It still does not make a body of
opinion.
BTW - you keep refering to MIS in the same or similar context to (M) minimal (A) access (S) surgery.
Be under no illusion - it is not the same.
MAS uses direct vision with scopes with minimal access. It is not the same as poking a bone saw or bur into a tiny hole without visualisation and burring away at what you THINK are the appropriate tissues.
I doubt any ortho, ENT, General surgeon etc would liken themselves to the techniques that you practice
I have had private reply to my request to see the CMIFAS training schedule.It seems that the only way this is available is by attending at one of their courses. As I have already said the SCP syllabus is available on request,and NHS surgical units always welcome visitors.Given reasonable notice my private unit will also welcome practitioners.There also seems to be a gripe that some of us, who have obtained consultant podiatric surgery status, were subject to less rigorous training. What these would-be surgeons fail to understand is that everything moves on and trying to equate mis surgery with any of the present day surgeons, be they consultants or otherwise, is a gross mis-interpretation of the situation. I challenge one of these surgeons to allow an FCPodS to come into their private practice to see what goes on. The reply will be silent.
I challenge one of these surgeons to allow an FCPodS to come into their private practice to see what goes on. The reply will be silent.
Please contact the college and this can be arranged.
This process has been in place for some considerable time. You may if you wish attend cadaver training also.
All you have to do is phone me on 01344423117 and arrange a day and venue for me to observe MIS in one of your units.I have already asked the college for their schedule of training and to date that has not been forthcoming I really do not want to be sent around in circles. I have made simple requests and with a legitimate organisation which you claim to be they should not present a problem.It is really a case of put up orshut up.
Hi Guys, my name is Abid, you have probably seen my name as secretary for the MIS college. A few days ago I was alerted to this debate. Usually I refrain from posting on such forums in preferance of face to face dialogue. However, I feel I need to help clarify a few points. Firstly, Why am I involved with the College. I have the greatest respect for my piers in the world of Pod surgery, those whom against all the odds and with years of hard work and dedication to the proffession have grasped foot surgery for us. The intention of the college is not to appear as a rogue splinter group of Podiatrist's whose only aim is to degrade the profession. During my career I had aspired to become a foot surgeon, having spent time in theatre with some respected colleagues. Along the way I stumbled across mis. This was some 2+ years ago. I was probably one of the biggest critics, and it took some time for me to become convinced that MIS was a safe and effective procedure. I spoke to many pod surgeons/orthopods/M.D's etc and I found out a much as I could before passing judgement. Let's not get carried away. There are limits to MIS, it is certainly not the be all, and end all of foot surgery, I don't believe anyone ever did. I dont think you guy's should at all be threatend by MIS it is not a replacement to foot surgery, but it is a fantastic tool for exostoses/osteotomy's/soft tissue work. From an NHS point of view, would it not be great to be able to provide easy/simple procedures which are very safe to those Patients who have to return every 6-8 weeks for i.d corns and so forth. I am looking at cures rather than treatments for these guys, and MIS is a tool which we should have in our repotoire, especially when considering forefoot pathologies, perhaps this might free up our pod surgeons to concentrate on more mid/rearfoot stuff. I'm not to sure yet how things will work out, but believe me, anybody who sees the procedures as I have, here and in Spain will surely be convinced that the procedures are very safe, very effective, and very cost efficient.
We have not re-discovered MIS, we never claimed to. It has been around for a long time and has developed in that time, and has now been accepted world-wide. In this day and age, I think it's time for people to embrace such techniques. I am unsure who has been posting under the cmifas title. In the future I sugest anyone who wants further details should refer to myself/ Amin Sain, in order to avoid confussions and mis-representations. We are predominatly an open book. Those asking to view procedures and other specific details should be aware that they are most welcome to attend the next-seminar, where we will have eminent speakers, and all questions will be answered. That was the whole point of the first seminar where Professor Isham the world-renowned expert on MIS was on hand to answer all queries. NONE of the so-called skeptics attended, in apparent preferance to bantering on these forums. I wanted to know so I took the time to get to know. I fail to see the point of these discussions which end up in rude comments being passed between so called professionals. I certainly do not appreciate being branded an Idiot by those which I have always held in the highest regard. Yes we are a small group, and we are slowly, but methodically working on building the College. I for one do not wish to be part of any such organisation, nor do I want for the College to be churning out anything but the best qualified MIS surgeons. And to this end we are working extremly hard. However we can not be held responsible for people commenting on our behalf without our knowledge. Rest assured the College will be investigating the identity of the one posting under the cmifas banner. Until this is resolved please contact myself/Amin our details can be found at cmifas.com. In response to Mr Golding's comments, obviously we do have a syllabus/ training setup for our MEMBERS. The basic details of which are on the site. If this is not enough, please become a member and join the club. I tried to get your syllabus, but was told It was for members only. If this is not an option for you please attend our seminar. I will bring up your request to sit in on some MIS procedures at our next meeting, if you do not want membership. Please bear in mind that none of us were able to view these procedures without membership. Finally I would like to point out that our colleagues in Spain teach basic MIS procedures at undergraduate level, students are qualified to carry out procedures such as exostoses removal. They can then do further post-grad training to learn further techniques.
Best regards, I need to watch the end of The Apprentice, Abid Ali.
Last edited by alipod : 10th May 2006 at 02:45 PM.
Some good points there…You and I are old friends so you know the (high) standards I would want all surgeons to be at. That has always been my bottom line with the development of splinter surgical factions – the SCP route is accepted and rigorous and that would seem the best way to go.
I am told that Dr Ishams US AAFAS is not recognised by the APMA. If I am right in that then it looks like a disadvantaged US group is helping UK pods who haven’t made it thought the UK system, i.e. it looks BAD. Do you know if this is the case?
Bear in mind that Amin was marketing the college quite aggressively and was saying that it would become bigger that the SCP. He was also using the titles “doctor” and “consultant” without it seemed going through the traditional routes to earn such titles. I note that he now an “Asst Prof” – this suggests an asst-chair position within an academic institution of an individual with a credible research/teaching profile. If this is not the case for Amin please say, but again it looks bad from an image perspective.
In my posts last year I pointed out that MIS as an option is fine, but that a surgeon would chose MIS as apposed to open surgery if it was more appropriate for a particular case. What the CMFAS seemed to do last year was come on the scene and say MIS would work for any foot problem. You take a more reasoned approach where you say that it works well for lumps and bumps etc. I also suggest that though Orthos’ are doing MIS techniques – they do so after being extensively trained in open techniques first by their appropriate training body.
I put many questions on this and other forums but many went unanswered which also reflected badly on the image of the college, I felt. Look back on other threads and you will see what I mean. I wanted to be at the seminar last year but I was teaching a mixed podiatry (SAME/HPC) group elsewhere. I wonder who the other posters are under the CMFAS banner – I suspect that they regularly post anonymously on other forums, but for the average reader bear in mind how they reflect your group.
Lastly, as Amin has 2 outstanding HPC complaints against him, another point that reflects badly on the college. However, let me know where I am inaccurate in any of the above. Professional dialogue always appreciated!!
You are due to come and scrub with me again soon – perhaps I should come and see some MIS. Is Dermot doing any in Northants???
Minimal Invasive Surgery cadaver training
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