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Looks like a good argument for regulations! And now the deregulators vote down the bail-out.
Quote Gerald Friedman, a US economist: "The Republicans in the House of Representatives are playing chicken with world economy.
"The pro-deregulation people, the Republicans who voted this down, are the same people who have deregulated financial markets over the last 30 years.
"The people that got us into this mess are now the ones that want to wash their hands of it. It's a little hypocritical."
Where do they go from here?
Mark C
Well I couldn't disagree more.
Regulations, i.e., the push to get more people in homes and ownership, was pushed heavily by the Clinton (that's DEMOCRATIC) administration. These efforts, pushed by legislation, offered sub prime discounted loans, almost all of which were variable rate or short term balloon payment types. These loans were offered, and given, to almost anyone breathing, whether or not they were credit worthy. In other words, the MARKET was not allowed to regulate itself as it always has.
It was not Republican Regulations that got us into this mess. As recently as 1 1/2 years ago, the Democratic run House of Representatives went on record as stating Nothing fundamentally was wrong with Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac and NO additional studies were needed for regulators!!!!! ALL WAS GOOD!
You all wanted change? Well, it's been two years of a Democratic Congress and Senate, things have REALLY changed. Congratulations.
The price of oil, the price of the war on terrorism, the influx and cost of illegal mexicans, increased spending by Washington, all of which have served to weaken our economy has brought this fundamental change in the way of doing business to the forefront.
MORE regulation is NOT the answer.
WE tax payers are basically being asked to purchase 700 BILLION dollars worth of bad mortgage loans by the VERY PEOPLE who originally thought GIVING these loans was a good idea. (by the way, when I say WE TAX PAYERS I mean those that actually PAY TAXES..... you know, the "wealthy"!!!!!!!
Well, my mortgage is paid on time, my 401 K is now all in interest bearing accounts, separately guaranteed to 100K per account, my new Mercedes E550 gets around 20 miles per gallon; I say let the loans default and lets let a FREE MARKET once again rebalance our economy.
Want to ruin a free market? Let government regulate it. How many times in history do we need to prove this?
It's not just an American problem - the sub-prime issue may well be the one that broke the camel's back - but rather it is the exponential rise in debt, both personal and corporate, and the use of various dubious financial vehicles adopted by the institutions which are used to manage and shift said debt throughout the globalised economies - that is driving the momentum in this crash. The $700 billion being voted on currently by the House of Representatives is an arbitrary figure which has no real basis and I tend to agree with Steve that throwing good money after bad merely compounds the problem. Besides, it is no-where near enough.There is a serious downturn in the wider economy - not just the banking sector - with job losses throughout construction, manufacturing and related service industies - and these will impact on everyone. Think major defaults on personal debt and the impact this will have on banking and insurances and the downward spiral will get a major turbo boost! The credit default annual market started on October 1st and this will have a great deal more serious effect on the markets that the sub-prime fiasco as it is estimated that the "at risk" credit in the USA is now in the region of $67,000 billion! Would you not just like to see Hank try and sell that one to the senators?
Try reading Frank Veneroso's views on the second wave
Interesting reading my friends and who knows where this will end up. Suggest you start quietly purchasing some dried and tinned foods and some spares for your bicycles. Of course, Steve, the only money you have is what you hold in your wallet or under your mattress - your deposits are simply numbers on a balance sheet and can't be used for anything if there is a financial collapse. That said, if and when a collapse occurs, the money under your mattress will cease to have any value anyway - except as a fuel source for lighting fires! What we may well end up with - and what governments are not yet discussing - is a financial jubillee - an amelioration of all debt - personal, corporate and international; a resetting of the global financial economy with (hopefully) better - not neccessarily more - regulation in place to prevent this mess from happening again.
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"citing an indisposition due to special circumstances"
"Steve, the only money you have is what you hold in your wallet or under your mattress - your deposits are simply numbers on a balance sheet"
Hi Mark:
VERY good point!
My dad, who is now 91, told me a few weeks ago about how he lost $10 when the banks closed in the great depression. He said then that I should start cashing out!
I thought he was an old man worrying about things that could never happen in this day and age.
Hmmmmmmmmmm
Maybe he's not so wrong!
IT would be difficult to take money OUT of a pension plan before I reach 59.5 without substantial penalties. I don't think I'm at that point yet.
The house passed the bail out today. I haven't read the details but I'm sure it will cost me!
Hopefuly the economy will start to take a PAGE TWO and McCain will gain in the polls. Of course it was McCain who, in 2005, actually drafted LEGISLATION for more regulation of Freddie and Fannie! THe DEMS wouldn't have it. This gets lost somewhere..........I have NO IDEA how OBAMA can rate higher in voter confidence when it comes to the economy!!!! The guy has absolutely NO CLUE!
Yes, lets help the economy by raising corp. and high end income taxes and increasing government spending!!! OMG
Even JFK knew that LOWERING taxes stimulated the economy. AND that's just what he did. AND it worked!
Steve
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DrSArbes
Fellow American College of Foot & Ankle Surgeons
Board Certified Foot & Ankle Surgery, ABPS
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
Well, the lunatics really have taken over the asylum. I like this comment from Martin Waller of The Times today.
Quote:
Right. That’s that done, then. Now what?
Events of the past week have brought home the reason why Henry Paulson’s $700 billion bailout, or whatever meaningless figure you wish to conjure, is essential, if perhaps not enough. Step back seven days, and the argument was that public money was being pledged to banks to bail out bankers whose excesses had made that pledge necessary.
What is apparent now is the extent that the seizing up of the world financial system is the problem of us all, and not just a few overpaid Wall Street plutocrats. That European Schadenfreude that saw it all as the fault of the turbo-charged Anglo-Saxon financial system has taken a battering after the bailouts of Fortis and Dexia of Belgium, Hypo Real Estate of Germany and Iceland’s Glitnir, the near-collapse of Italy’s Unicredit, and the government support packages for Irish and Greek banks.
Part of the problem, politically and philosophically, of putting together the Paulson package has been the impossibility of decoupling the interests of the bankers and the banks. It is unfeasible to declare Year Zero and ensure that the banks survive but their overpaid executives go to the killing fields. Bonuses, once paid, cannot legally be clawed back, however pleasing might be the prospect of financiers joining the rest of us in the queues for the soup kitchens.
Someone has to run the institutions after the rescue. Note the re-emergence of John Thain, the former head of Merrill Lynch and the New York Stock Exchange, as putative chief executive of Bank of America, one of the institutions most likely to survive unscathed.
The next question is, will it be enough? Frankly, the odds are not good. There are plenty of signs that the credit crunch has spread out of finance into the real economy. Another 159,000 off US non-farm payrolls in September is just one. If corporations, encouraged to take on too much debt in good times by those same banks, now find their access to credit limited, they will seek to reduce borrowings, delay investment and lay off workers. Those workers, and everyone else worried about their jobs and houses, will stop spending.
Those corporations see falling sales, whether of consumer goods or of their components – note the abrupt fall-off in demand reported this week by Wolfson, which makes chips for iPhones, for example – and lay off more workers. Meanwhile, more entrepreneurial smaller firms, which have traditionally provided much of the impetus for economic growth, are even more constrained by their bankers. This is how it goes, down and down in an endless spiral.
At the end of that spiral there are two futures. One is Götterdämmerung, a financial catastrophe that does indeed bear comparison with the aftermath of 1929 – and please, disregard anyone who claims we are there, or anywhere near there, yet.
The other is a sadder, shabbier world perhaps more comparable to Britain in the 1950s, where luxuries were just that, mostly inaccessible, a step up the housing ladder meant years of penury ahead and credit was almost unheard of. Worry if you work in finance, estate agency, retail or other vulnerable areas, or if you are unable to trade out of your debts on your existing salary.
Among the survivors, of course, like cockroaches in a nuclear winter, will be many of Gordon Brown’s 600,000 or more workers taken on to the public payroll over the past decade, along with their copper-bottomed pensions. A world inherited by diversity inspectors and wheelie bin snoops. Dear God.
Have a nice weekend.
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"citing an indisposition due to special circumstances"
"At the end of that spiral there are two futures........"
I think in the end, the US tax payers will end up bailing everyone out, buying 700 (or more) billion dollars worth of bad debt and cleaning the financial books of many lending institutions of these loans.
We will then see cut backs in US spending on the war on terror, for instance, education, health care, etc......WE will pay the Piper with more of our earned income going to the government.
Pretty simple really, doesn't mean anyone likes it and NO ONE will appreciate or thank us for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lesson? Live within your means, grow your company as you see profit, don't assume anything when it comes to investing other than the worst.
Steve
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DrSArbes
Fellow American College of Foot & Ankle Surgeons
Board Certified Foot & Ankle Surgery, ABPS
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
G'day Steve, good to hear from you.
Had a great day yesterday, saw my first whale close-up, got absolutely drowned in the process, hangingover the bow of a charter boat, but well worth it, have never been out in the big ocean in anything smaller than a ferry before. Must get my own (boat).
Back to the topic, sorry mate, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Clinton (and the Democrats) repeal thed Glass-Stetall act (not sure about that name / spelling) which was a regulatory statute (?) that prevented a class of financial institutions getting into investment banking. Didn't this start the ball rolling?
Then, Clinton appointed the Fannie Mae CO who lobbied Congress for less regulations, then created those dodgy mortgage loans.
Your claim that Obama "has no clue". Some references to say McCain is any more knowledgable.
After the bail-out you, what appears to be a fairly reasonable assumption, note there'll be less money for health care, education and the "war against terrorism". Obviously not good the first two but the less "war against terrorism" the better, the breeding ground we've (coalition of the willing) created and are maintaining, could well do with a hasty cessation.
And Steve, who's left to vote for, Obama or the newly found regulating 'maverick' McCain. Pity Ron Paul never got the nomination eh?
all the best, mark c
I've seen whales up close as well, in Los Cabos. Impressive animals.
Of course we can go round and round ad nauseum on who is and is not to blame.
I do know that there have been no terrorist's attacks on US soil since 9/11/01. (my Mom said never argue against success)
I also know that if you raise income and corporate taxes and increase government spending that is will impede economic growth. I hope we don't get the chance to PROVE this again.
I also know that the those inside the USA and those in the rest of the world view Obama and McCain quite differently.
I also know that all government money comes from Tax payers, so I'll be helping to pay for this bail out (that gives me the right to vote for the next US President)
I do know that there have been no terrorist's attacks on US soil since 9/11/01. (my Mom said never argue against success)
Correlation does not prove causation
The alleged 9/11 perpetrators were mostly Saudi's, allegedly masterminded by Osama bin Laden. Why then invade Iraq, and now threaten Iran? I know, IRAQ = OIL, and Zionist pressure from within the US for the dangerously ridiculous stand on IRAN.
Interestingly did you know the original campaign name for the Iraq invasion was OPERATION IRAQI LIBERATION, yep O.I.L. !!! ( but they changed it after 2 weeks to OIF)
Quote:
Originally Posted by drsarbes
I also know that all government money comes from Tax payers, so I'll be helping to pay for this bail out (that gives me the right to vote for the next US President)
yep and next US vice-president, what a joke Palin! what an embarrassment!
have a good day, mark c
Hi Mark:
I'm not sure where you get your information from, but I assure you Gov. Palin is no Joke. She's a very smart, energetic, conservative female who has the highest approval rating of any governor.
The liberal press literally hates her because she is a female conservative. It's almost funny to see how their liberal agenda trumps any gender equality issues.
As for terrorist attacks, like I said, when you argue against success you just show your unwillingness to accept the reality of the situation.
Again, my bottom line here is I feel safer with a conservative running our nation. I do not like socialism, I do not like class warfare. I paid over $120,000 in personal income tax in 2007. I think that's more then enough.
Mark, please, if you feel as strongly towards liberalism/socialism as you seem then feel free to send some of your hard earned income to the US Government so they can redistribute it.
... I assure you Gov. Palin is no Joke. She's a very smart, energetic, conservative female who has the highest approval rating of any governor.
Thanks Steve, I did some web searching on Gov. Palin. I'll give it to her energetic YEP, conservative MOSTLY, MORE SO NOWADAYS, female YEP PART OF THE PLOY, but smart? I know it's all relative so smart relative to whom/what? She did get through a state college 4 yr course, admittedly journalism, so she's got to be above 100 IQ level, right!
I made my last post going on my / the opinions of her performances in the interviews (beside the REAL JOKE HANNITY on "Faux").
It was a nice touch she opened the gutter politics with the ridiculous slur on Obama. I think she better lay low lest her John Birch Society / Alaska Independent Group affilitation raise its ugly head. And McCain a KKK 'ist!
Quote:
Originally Posted by drsarbes
As for terrorist attacks, like I said, when you argue against success you just show your unwillingness to accept the reality of the situation.
If you used that line of argument in podiatry you'd be treated like "you-know-who". I propose an analogy; I have been bitten by a wasp when inside my house, so I go out and attack the bee hive down the street (i also put in flyscreens) and I haven't been bitten by a wasp since so my attack on the bee hive is responsible. In the process I've killed 4,000 of my young and 1 million innocent bees buy hey!
You right we don't agree, all the best, mark c
Financial crisis - deregulators mess
and it looks like some notable commentators agree....
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