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Good morning my fellow DPMs and students you have all spun the magic bunion wheel and won that roller coster ride into a field littered with the shavings of those who have come before you. Shavings? Shavings of what? No not mycotic debris or less than viable remnants of the stratum corneum but alas the shavings of any long lost shell of awarenes which was stripped away as you entered that member's only world of the foot. You have settled into at best what is a world of what the cheerleaders of the profession exalt as THE GREATEST SPECIALTY ON EARTH. Of course the years will yield an overwhelmingly satisfying career where you will not only reap the benefits of helping the sick and walk among the greatest minds on the planet proudly displaying those three widely known letters behind your name...What three letters? D P M and who should know better than the banker or butcher or candlestick maker what those letters mean-really once they examine the DPM after your name on a cheque or charge card, shrug their shoulders and narrow their eyes : "Whass that mean, D P M." You will proudly exalt that it is a Doctor of Podiatric Medicine and that potential patient suffering some painful pedal anomalie a potential sole for you to save will reply: Heck my real doctor takes care of my foot and when I broke my toe lass year I done saw the orthopedic doctor. Ain't you fellers and gals like kire prackers?"

How DARE you write such a post on this arena? You ask. Why not, where can anyone with a DPM honestly express the truth about what podiatry is for those who are about to take the plunge into a world of absurdity, hypocrisy and false expectations. Tell me please young pod or student pod or pre pod-What do you expect from this career? Do you think everyone does that three year residency will go out and make a living? Really? Do think that getting a license will occur if the states with so many different scopes of practicee will even allow you to perform your craft within its borders? What do they call the most succesful, academicaly accomplished and brilliant podiatrist? Why isn't podiatry all ten thousand strong-believe the stats? Find out of that 10K how many retire on disability, quit or just skip out on student loans never to be heard from again.

How often do you hear the calling of the acclaimed podiatrists rehashing the continuing education in podiatry and how many ways to do a bunionectomy or rearfoot procedure only to find out that you will NEVER be able to get the chance to do the things you are trained to do. Either a hospital won't let you on staff or your state doesn't allow you past the line on the leg above the maleoli-no you won't be allowed by law to pop a pimple one millimeter above that border or you end up in the slammer.

If you leave podiatry and want a new start a new career a new job in this ruddy murky economy do you think that the D P M is recognised as anything more than a mystery with roots somewhat akin to ann offshoot of witchcraft? There have been public burnings at the stake of DPMs in some communities where DPMs have stoped to help accident victims and said that they could help because they were doctors-despite the fact they were surgically trained and could put together and take apart a foot every which way to sundown-and these GOOD SAMARITAN DPMs were punished for practicing medicine without a license!

The only way a DPM will gain any respect in the MD world is when or if he or she donates his body to science and is dissected by a first year medical student.

If you are young and just starting think of your colleagues-helpful sorts who will rip you off every step of the way and hold true to the axiom that they teach in DPM school: NEVER ASK A QUESTION YOU DON'T HAVE THE ANSWER TO-after all you don't want that shoddy education to show and perpetuating ignorance and wearing the blinders so you don't go off the track are critical to a life of mediocrity if best. Let's face it you probably won't go too far economically and your social skills will diminish as the years pass.

Oh yeah tell me about the DPM schools and why they don't offer the students a way to earn a wage as a physician assistant or OR tech to supplement their income while building their AMerican dream practice?

Project this or project that and all the money you donate to all the associations go to some fat cat having a big meal and a hooker so you can think your interests are well served-your lobbying dollars and political action aside will NEVER compare to the shear numbers of dollars that any other society can raise.

Is there an alternative? Yeah keep your mouth shut and pay off your loans and buy the products that the ads that pay for the sites sponsor and listen to the hacks selling their wares as if they really give a crap about THE PROFESSION - Love it or Leave it the motto of podiatry in the USA.

dropatoeor2:

Sorry you are having such a bad day. If you are really a podiatrist then give us your real name and then maybe someone will take you seriously.

Otherwise, please explain why I know so many very happy podiatrists who have happy patients and are very glad that they took the time, effort and expense to become podiatrists. Have you analyzed your situation thoroughly enough to realize that possibly the anger, frustration and the problems that you seem to have with podiatry may not be due to the podiatry profession itself, but rather is due to a problem with you?? I suspect not.

__________________
Sincerely,

Kevin

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Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College

e-mail: kevinakirby@comcast.net

Private Practice:
107 Scripps Drive, Suite 200
Sacramento, CA 95825 USA
My location

Voice: (916) 925-8111 Fax: (916) 925-8136
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Entertaining and illuminating. Rather reinforces the view that the podiatric profession has its fair share of those who demonstrate a rampant inferiority complex. It's a bit of a cliche but don't you think your vocation is just what you make of it?

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"citing an indisposition due to special circumstances"

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Please explain to me the shame that I should feel for choosing chiropractic as a profession? I truly don't appreciate you injecting the chiropractic profession into your odious soliloquy of despair.

The same goes for the podiatric profession, I also am familiar with many very professionally gratified and successful podiatrists, whom I personally happen to respect and apparently their patients do as well.

Perhaps as Kevin suggests the problem lies with you?

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"If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true is really true, there would be little hope of advance." - Orville Wright

David G. Wedemeyer, D.C., C.Ped.

Related Threads:
Resi-dunces and Podiatry Negativity
Why all of the podiatry negativity?
Podiatry Negativity
Podiatry Negativity on the Internet

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A biomechanics expert and a chiropractor and some amatature psy eval. OK you want to know about shame. Do you believe that spinal subluxation is the silent killer and that proper allignment of the human spine is not just an integral but imperative proponent for health and well being? To the professor in a state that forces a podiatrist-actually several-to leave the field for advanced or lateral degrees. As a professor at CCPM you must know who this DPM DC and the many DPM MDs in California as well...maybe not. To the chiropractor pedorthist. Your just making a buck and I really don't care. This is about the state of podiatry in the US at this time and the directions in which it is going. It is not about self-loathing or remorse or sour grapes. My personal history is just that personal history and largely of little or no relevance. What I am trying to do is tell a story and in doing so raise the level of awareness of podiatrists students and those aspiring to become members of the profession.

Professor, how many degrees of calcaneal varus does it take to make someone understand the neural pathways which have thrown off ones gait to such extent that the misfiring of extensor and circumfluent muscle groups outside of the California scope of practice might be limiting your diagnosis and treatment to what you are permitted to do by law? Does your position allow you to teach your students that the antalgic gait might indeed have some ramifications that do not stem from distal structures or perhaps if your scope of practice were not limited as such would exploration into anomalies unrelated to pedal pathology reveal something less confabulated?

Yes we are what we percieve -in an academic and professional world-the addition of personal snipes serves no purpose in the advancement of of information and a journalistic approach.

Over the years my research has resulted in bringing darkness into light. Often what is seen is not what one hopes to find and re-examination occurs which for better or worse brings about change.

I am an instrument of change and verily enjoy my anonymity to which only a certain degree remains.

No, Dr. Gloom N. Doom, you are only an instrument of anonymity that is trying to use an academic forum to vent frustration over his failures as a podiatrist. Nothing more....nothing less. Like you, I'm sure your "research" will also continue to fade into the shadows of forgetfulness as you continue to post your story on other internet forums where maybe someone might actually care about your personal problems.

If you ever want to be remembered, or "bring darkness into light", you must first be man enough to reveal your real name to those who you are trying to convince. Otherwise, you are just wasting your time and efforts here on Podiatry Arena.

__________________
Sincerely,

Kevin

**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College

e-mail: kevinakirby@comcast.net

Private Practice:
107 Scripps Drive, Suite 200
Sacramento, CA 95825 USA
My location

Voice: (916) 925-8111 Fax: (916) 925-8136
**************************************************

What I believe with reference to chiropractic is not important nor is it relevant to this web board. If a poster with a valid name and identity wishes to discuss my opinion of the philosophical basis of one segment of the chiropractic profession, I would be more than happy to discuss it. In all probability though, I doubt many podiatrists are acutely fascinated with the subject.

This is an academic forum for foot professionals, specifically podiatrists and allied health practitioners with an interest in biomechanics. Why you felt the need to demean the entire chiropractic profession to make your point is beyond me.

If it makes you feel more important and eases your rather fragile ego to insult an entire profession (especially when you were accomplishing that so gracefully with your own), then go right ahead. It will only serve to validate the level of your personal bias, how myopic your viewpoint is and the venomous nature of your lack of inter-professional respect.

On the other hand, don't expect me to or any other chiropractor with a sense of professional self-worth reading this to sit idly on their hands and allow you to attack them without provocation to further your goals with baseless malignant invectives.

__________________
"If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true is really true, there would be little hope of advance." - Orville Wright

David G. Wedemeyer, D.C., C.Ped.

netizens

The older I become the more I realise podiatry is what I do and not what I am.

It does take a special person however to work constantly below others eyes.

Seasons Greeting to all corn cutters

toeslayer

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Curious how the professor finds that there is some greater need in discovering ones identity rather than a factual discourse regarding the state of podiatry and assumptions about my profession gender and reference to a game (baseball?) all seem to indicate some personal albeit professional involvement in teaching young people -I'll return to that in a moment, perhaps the chiropractor and the not so veiled threats should illustrate how examination of historical facts yield a knee-jerk response that these are "malignant invectives" and such. It sounds like if that individual knew my name and location the concern for my personal safety might illustrate how some of the base instincts can be acted-out. I post this with the hope of anonymyity because what I have to say could bring about some form of violence, as noted by the somewhat thuggish post about how or who will not sit on his/her hands. Perhaps too many episodes of gangster shows.

To the administraor who refered me to the HATE sites. Thanks, they are amusing yet telling in many ways. Sir, or Madam, this is not a negativity or hate thread at all rather a somewhat provocative-albeit grating query into the topic which is to discover and share the contemporary state of podiatry in the US and can you honestly express without emotion to a college advisor in the form of a handbook for those seeking the insiders view of the professions (the threatening chiropractor speaks volumes with his/her tone)

So aside from some personal posturing and diminuitive accolades regarding my research, please provide some answers which you appear to have. Keep in mind that I am simply using a somewhat naive, humorous (to some) approach to extract information-so please spare your righteous indignation for those who truly opress and examine some questions which might lead to some degree of truth enabling one to make decisions which will stick with them for a life time:

Consider a potential student applying for a position at one of these institutions and answer:

What are the requirements for entry into podiatry school and are they
as flexible as what can be gleened from those so-called Negativity/Hate sites?

Can a DPM graduate obtain licensure in the USA without a residency?

Does Board Certification in Podiatry mean anything to those non-podiatrists in the USA and why are there so manyu of them?

Just how limiting is the Scope of Practice in the care of the human body with respect to how it might impair overlooking some organ system or anatomical anomalie to justify a problem in the foot?

Is the DPM a recognisable form of academic achievment, ie., do major universities in a global sense employ the DPM for academic positions?

Why is it there such divergence in state licensure in the US if all of the DPM schools have the `same' curriculum?

Economically, can you quantify to a variable degree of certitude that there are opportunities which exist for podiatrists outside of private practice that are readily available to DPMs?

With respect to job satisfaction I am certain that an abundance of anectdotal evidence will suggest some who are very happy with podiatry and contrarily those who are not at all with an abundance of those in between.

How many DPMs have left the profession? Under what circumstances? What is the level of substance abuse in podiatry? What is the level of divorce? What is the the ratio of DPMs on disability? What percentage of DPMs have had disciplinary action by their state governing board.

Does podiatry manufacture treatable (within scope) conditions which would otherwise not exist to justify services?
(Really, who could honestly answer that without self-incrimination).

If you feel that podiatry is singled out for this research does encompass MD DO DDS DC and JD aspirants and those seeking PhD level training.

With respect to the body of medical literature how frequently do DPMs contribute and to what degree are they trained in such?

These are just a few questions among many to be included in a no-nonsense guide.

Yes this is research and this approach is a bit dicey but does yield otherwise some hidden elements by raising some touchy and at the same time inane points. The yield of this experiment is information by way of response and the answers to questions which otherwise would be well thought out and edited thereby yielding some quantifyable information without the emotional spasms (I remain anonymous and you who advertise your names and make threats).

Along with many others I believe that an educated and thoroughly researched field essential before embarking on a career which may or may not be what they are seeking.

Yawn....

__________________
Sincerely,

Kevin

**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College

e-mail: kevinakirby@comcast.net

Private Practice:
107 Scripps Drive, Suite 200
Sacramento, CA 95825 USA
My location

Voice: (916) 925-8111 Fax: (916) 925-8136
**************************************************

dropatoer2


I think it is fair to engage your concerns and discuss them in a little more detail. Rather than shut you down, I would like to hear more from you.

Most countries outside of the US that practice podiatry are generally envious of the scope, status, political gains and associated professional standing that DPMs have collectively achieved over the past 100years. I think it would be fair to say that most of us in the Commonwealth nations would trade your concerns about your chosen career in the US, for our suppressed status under medical dominance any day of the week (forget about your student loans system though!).

However, we face similar challenges from different perspectives.

The provision of basic foot hygiene is a good example. Someone has to do it. Its not glamorous, or requiring significant skills, but we attempt to play it down because we are 'so much more' than providing those services.

It's a dichotomy - but one which I feel dentistry has handled far better than us. They have 'owned' the mouth for a long time, and controlled others (eg dental hygienists) who have stepped in to do the jobs they feel are beneath them (ie 'scale and clean'). They have evolved multiple specialties which are recognised worldwide, and a range of qualifications which are generally accepted internationally. We have not. It would have been nice for the US to drive this out to the 'colonies' a little harder many years ago. As it stands, a DPM really doesnt exist anywhere but the US - so means little.

You complain about not being considered a "real doctor" and the relative benefits of being an MD vs. a DPM - but that's what happens when you are in a minority group with limited political power. Like it or lump it. Or do what the oral and max/fax surgeons do and go and get that medical degree.

If you think its bad in the US, come and work where you have *no* status.

Ahhh, the grass is always greener on the other side.

LL

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Remember, it's just a foot.

FWIW, you're reminding me of my own cynical 30's. The good news is we get older, and eventually become grateful with what we do have, and realistic goals kick in. As for a quick snap out of this situation, often doing something nice for someone generates a contagious smile, then ends up on our own face. Try it sometime, and walk away from the frustrations of the day knowing one person got helped for no other reason than that they needed it and you got to be the one to brighten someone else's day with a little random act of kindness.

Thank you for the thoughtful contribution to my request for information sans the personalisation. Again let me clarify that I have no personal investment in podiatry.

There are those, who have spent considerable time effort and money. Yes podiatrists have a remarkable station in the US that is different in the United States in contradistinction to UK Australia and much of the industrialial world. That is not what I am probing. Its always frustrating on some level to see a monority suffer the academic aparthied that DPMs in the USA have from the eyes of students who have, after ten or twenty years and on expressed remarkable disdain for the lack of any initiatives to integrate podiatry into the mainstream without much success and tremendous disparate perspectives with respect to its leaders.

What are the answers to the questions raised? Are they so personalized that one who raises these questions is accused of NEGATIVITY or a Podiatry Hater? That previous posts and an abundance of interviews have a general net yield with few if any answers which are not emotionally charged dictums in defense of their field. No questions asked-just defend their choice in some bizarre cognitive dissonance spiral which leads nowhere but oblivion as in the entirely bizarre Uncensored Podiatry site. Many of the posts are hilarious while others are frightening-and I must comment thoroughly entertaining and read back-to-back make for a very amusing read which aspirants might construe as a rather fun endeavor. There isn't the "You must be kidding?" Moment-Because its just too good to miss. Contrarily Podiatry Bytes is a poigniant and telling diatribe that is very well put together and raises some serious questions which to the uninitiated might give pause in considering a career in the US as podiatrist.

Yes dentistry has its hygeinists and podiatry does not. Dentists have a niche in American culture and they do indeed have the numbers to employ lobbyists and can and do impose a political force -where would Americans go with tooth problems? Then again is General Dentistry not sufficient to handle periodontal, endodontal and other so-called dental specialties outside of oral surgery? The paralell of oral surgery speaks volumes of an apparent failure of podiatry where everyone entering the DPM field wants or appears to desire the status of Podiatric Surgeon. If there are recognisable paralels my questions remain why are US podiatrists at somewhat of a stalemate with respect to some universality of acceptance?

"The paralell of oral surgery speaks volumes of an apparent failure of podiatry where everyone entering the DPM field wants or appears to desire the status of Podiatric Surgeon."

Your "stir the pot" post is interesting, TS, whoever you are.

I'll let others comment on your rather long, convoluted posts, but there is one point you bring up that I would like to add to.

Oral Surgeons and Podiatric Surgeons.
I have used this comparison myself for years. When asked why I do not trim toe nails or reduce callouses or sell pads in my reception room, I often reply with the dentist=podiatrist, Oral surgeon =Podiatric Surgeon comparison.

Why I need to do this is obvious. When a patient, or anyone, looks in the Yellow Pages under DOCTORS OF PODIATRIC MEDICINE my name appears under the same heading as the 80 year old Chiropodist down the street who has no undergraduate degree and a three year Chiropody degree. He wouldn't know a "10 blade from a Freer elevator, but there we are, side by side............Along with the younger non surgically trained Podiatrist who gets sweaty palms doing a digital exostectomy in his office.

A bit frustrating.

Steve

__________________
DrSArbes
Fellow American College of Foot & Ankle Surgeons
Board Certified Foot & Ankle Surgery, ABPS
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA

Rather than moaning anonymously about the state of US podiatry, why not be constructive and do something about it. Try http://www.amsa.org/direct/ for a little inspiration.

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"citing an indisposition due to special circumstances"

My location

Well, someone finally sees the light about the state of health of podiatry. Frankly, I agree with the stated assessment! The fact is that podiatrists will never achieve parity with the MD's or DO's. Yes, there may come a day when podiatry training does emulate the other physician categories (MD and DO) but until we as a profession gear our studies and post degree internships and residencies on a similar or same coures as the MD we will never reach parity or recognition.!!!! We will be simply grouped into that infamous category of "Allied Health" specialty. As a podiatrist one can make a good living but I can say that in these times you will always be looked as less than a Physician. Don't be misled by those who say podiatrist should take the high road and fight for parity, it is a loosing battle in these times. Do I paint a dismal picture? Please don't get me wrong. I love podiatry for what it is and what we have accomplsihed but don't fall victim to a myth about being on equal ground with the MD. Accept your position and limited practice and be the best you can as a podiatist. Earn lots of money and provide a great life for your family and yourself. One day..........the road to obtaining a podiatry degree will match that of the MD and you may finally arrive at your wishful destiny... recognition by MD's and DO's as a brother or sister physician. All the roadblocks and obstacle to achieving parity will vanish.

Toefixer, that was very thoughtful. I had a nice dialogue with another member on another thread re this polemic.

Read the daily podiatry sites-my motiviation is discussed on another site-and then visit the threads on the MD DO sites re foot problems. DPMs can start to be taken seriously when they're voices are heard and their words read.

Personally, I would join a mutual masturbation society as it would clearly rid you two of some of those little frustrations you seem to be suffering from. That aside, when your words start to be taken seriously, I think that might herald the end of western civilisation as we know it. Your middle names aren't Shavelson by any chance?

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"citing an indisposition due to special circumstances"

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What exactily is a mutual masturbation society Mark Russell and why should I join one?

If you can not masturbate on your own or need assistance go to the podiatry porn sites and look at the bunionettes and toe-jammers and those wet and wild web spaces in thongs -

I don't have a middle name.

As quickly as we're all approaching Christmas, this thread is degrading. There has to be at least some Christmas cheer, and unlike some things, it's free with no cost benefit analysis required.

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OsiruSoft Research and Engineering
joejared@oretek.com

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Professional discontent is ubiquitous : this is not a problem confined to the profession of Podiatry.

Speak to any professional group and ask: does an aspect of work cause you discontent ?

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1495239

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http://www.linkedin.com/in/dfellner

dropatoer2,

Perhaps yopu cold summarize the concerns you have with current DPM traing ad practice and offer some solutions/improvements. This would allow a more reasoned debate! Perhaps!

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Graham Curryer

None of us know what we are doing, but some of us know more about what we are not doing than others!::

Here's my opinion on the profession. I'll cover a few aspects one at a time. I'll cover the bad, then the good.

First, the residency situation. I've been watching the APMA magazine for a while now, wondering when they will make the upcoming residency shortage the feature front page story. It hasn't happened yet, but the current issue has come the closest, as it has a few words in the lower corner about the issue. When you open the magazine and turn to the story, it says something to the effect of the solution to the residency shortage isn't that there are too many podiatry school slots, but rather it is that there aren't enough residencies. They say this because of the projected demand for podiatrists in the future substantiate the number of slots in the pod schools. But what if you are a couple of hundred grand in debt with no residency. This is the profession hurting itself, can't blame this one on the MD's or anyone else. Until the profession controls the number of students to match the number of residencies, this one is a major self inflicted wound. Some say just do well in school and beat out your classmates and you will get a residency. Do we really want to be this kind of profession? Of course, we all should do our best in school, but why be a profession that allows you to earn your degree and then be out of luck? Take a look on SDN or go do an interview at a pod school - you can find out about the residency shortage if you dig, but it's not front page news. It should be our main priority until they reduce the number of entering students to match the number of residencies. The residencies may face a shortage of students at times, but which is worse, this or a shortage of residencies?

Secondly, I attend a pod school that is integrated with a DO school. The difference in the classes shared with DO's and pod specific classes is something that most students don't talk about much, because we all want good recommendations from our professors. One specific difference involves the grading systems. The pod department has a policy that if over 50% of the class misses a test question, then the students who got it right get the same credit for the question as the students who missed the question. This is nothing more than a welfare system for the poorer performing students, and it penalizes the harder working students. The DO classes absolutely do not use this policy. In classes shared with DO students, if credit is given for a question that is missed by many in the class, the students who got it correct the first time get credit for this, plus the same credit added on that the students who missed the question get. In other words, their scaling doesn't penalize the high performing students.

Third, what's wrong with being podiatrists? Why can't we admit that our training is not the same as MD's. We don't do the same clinical rotations, we don't have the same admissions standards, and we don't take the same board exams. Until we do all of these, why don't we aim for improving our profession rather than asking to be "equal." Why not be OK with being podiatrists, admit this fact and be proud to be specialists of the foot and ankle. It's not that our training is worse than MD's, but it's that it's different, and different in a good way. We should enjoy this difference and strengthen it.

Finally, I am proud to be in the profession and feel that it is getting stronger and stronger. Podiatrists are being incorporated into more mainstream medicine than ever. I would like to see us work to improve the quality of the profession by addressing the above issues and limiting the self inflicted wounds. There is so much positive about the profession if we accept it for what it is and continue to improve it.