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Static Response of Maximally Pronated and Non-maximally Pronated Feet to Frontal Plane Orthosis Wedging
A new research article on the mechanical response of feet to frontal plane orthosis wedging was just published in the Journal of the American Podiatric Medical Association. This paper was a joint project with Spanish podiatrists, Javier Pascual Huerta and Juan Manuel Ropa Moreno, which studied the feet of 53 subjects in response to 5 and 10 degree varus and valgus wedged foot orthoses in relaxed bipedal stance.
Javier and Juan are two of our very intelligent podiatric colleagues and deserve a lot of credit for their hard work and persistence in seeing this important multi-year research project through to its completion and publication in JAPMA. I would be happy to send a pdf copy of the article to anyone who contacts me privately.
Quote:
Static Response of Maximally Pronated and Nonmaximally Pronated Feet to Frontal Plane Wedging of Foot Orthoses
Javier Pascual Huerta, DP *, Juan Manuel Ropa Moreno, DP * and Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
* Department of Podiatry, Universidad Europea de Madrid, Madrid, Spain.
Department of Applied Biomechanics, California School of Podiatric Medicine, Oakland, CA.
Background: Research on foot orthoses has shown that their effect on the kinematics of the rearfoot is variable, with no consistent patterns of changes being demonstrated. It has also been hypothesized that the mechanical effect of foot orthoses could be subject specific. The purpose of our study was to determine if maximally pronated feet have a different response to frontal plane wedging of foot orthoses than do nonmaximally pronated feet during static stance.
Methods: One hundred six feet of 53 healthy asymptomatic subjects were divided into two groups (maximally pronated and nonmaximally pronated) on the basis of their subtalar joint rotational position during relaxed bipedal stance. Functional foot orthoses were constructed for each subject and the relaxed calcaneal stance position was measured while standing on five separate frontal plane orthosis wedging conditions, 10° valgus, 5° valgus, no wedging, 5° varus, and 10° varus, to assess changes in calcaneal position.
Results: Relative to the no-wedging condition, there were statistically significant differences (P < .05) in calcaneal position between the maximally pronated and the nonmaximally pronated feet with the 10° valgus and the 10° varus wedging conditions. No significant differences in calcaneal position were found with the 5° varus and the 5° valgus wedging conditions.
Conclusions: Our study shows that the response to foot orthoses is variable between individuals. Maximally pronated subjects do not exhibit the same response to frontal plane wedging of foot orthoses as do nonmaximally pronated with 10° wedging. Intrinsic biomechanical factors such as subtalar joint position may influence the response to foot orthoses. (J Am Podiatr Med Assoc 99(1): 13–19, 2009)
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
Re: Static Response of Maximally Pronated and Non-maximally Pronated Feet to Frontal Plane Orthosis Wedging
Here is another biomechanical thought that we didn't include within the discussion of this paper.
We saw that the maximally pronated feet only inverted 4.63 degrees with a 10 degree varus wedged orthosis and the non-maximally pronated feet inverted 5.91 degrees with a 10 degree varus wedged orthosis. The mechanical analogy for this to imagine that the subtalar joint (STJ) in stance is like a spring with different stiffnesses. Maximally pronated STJs with medially deviated STJ axes have a "stiffer spring" to resist supination whereas non-maximally pronated STJs with more normal STJ axis location have a more "compliant spring" to resist supination.
Our research is mechanically consistent with the research by Craig Payne and co-workers' on the supination resistance device (Payne C, Munteaunu S, Miller K: Position of the subtalar joint axis and resistance of the rearfoot to supination. JAPMA, 93(2):131-135, 2003) in that some feet require much more force (whether it is from an inverted orthosis or a pulling force under their navicular) to supinate them than others.
Good to see the pieces of the puzzle start to fall into place into a coherent theory of how foot orthoses work.
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
Re: Static Response of Maximally Pronated and Non-maximally Pronated Feet to Frontal Plane Orthosis Wedging
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Kirby
Here is another biomechanical thought that we didn't include within the discussion of this paper.
We saw that the maximally pronated feet only inverted 4.63 degrees with a 10 degree varus wedged orthosis and the non-maximally pronated feet inverted 5.91 degrees with a 10 degree varus wedged orthosis. The mechanical analogy for this to imagine that the subtalar joint (STJ) in stance is like a spring with different stiffnesses. Maximally pronated STJs with medially deviated STJ axes have a "stiffer spring" to resist supination whereas non-maximally pronated STJs with more normal STJ axis location have a more "compliant spring" to resist supination.
Our research is mechanically consistent with the research by Craig Payne and coworkers' on the supination resistance device (Payne C, Munteaunu S, Miller K: Position of the subtalar joint axis and resistance of the rearfoot to supination. JAPMA, 93(2):131-135, 2003) in that some feet require much more force (whether it is from an inverted orthosis or a pulling force under their navicular) to supinate them than others.
Good to see the pieces of the puzzle start to fall into place into a coherent theory of how foot orthoses work.
Kevin
Just to be silly for a moment - what are cow orkers and how does one ork a cow?
All the best Dave Dave
__________________
Descartes seems to consider here that beliefs formed by pure reasoning are less doubtful than those formed through perception.
Re: Static Response of Maximally Pronated and Non-maximally Pronated Feet to Frontal Plane Orthosis Wedging
Very interesting research, doesnt this point to the fact a weight bearing casting/correction method is essential for determining the correct forces, ala Neil Smiths Vertical Alignment System
Regards Gavin J
Re: Static Response of Maximally Pronated and Non-maximally Pronated Feet to Frontal Plane Orthosis Wedging
Gavin,
Quote:
Very interesting research, doesnt this point to the fact a weight bearing casting/correction method is essential for determining the correct forces, ala Neil Smiths Vertical Alignment System
No. Unless you want to make a device for a subject who stands still and never walks, this research is...irrelevant..... to the dynamic influence the orthoses has on each individual.
We already know there is no correlation between static measurments, observed static pronation and dynamic function. It would be reasonable to deduce that the static devices used in this research would also demonstrate a 0 correlation to dynamic function.
Graham
__________________
Graham Curryer
None of us know what we are doing, but some of us know more about what we are not doing than others!::
Re: Static Response of Maximally Pronated and Non-maximally Pronated Feet to Frontal Plane Orthosis Wedging
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham
No. Unless you want to make a device for a subject who stands still and never walks, this research is...irrelevant..... to the dynamic influence the orthoses has on each individual.
We already know there is no correlation between static measurments, observed static pronation and dynamic function. It would be reasonable to deduce that the static devices used in this research would also demonstrate a 0 correlation to dynamic function.
Graham
Graham:
Now, Graham, this is a rather myopic view of our research. If one had a more broad-minded perspective of our research, one could say that the foot orthoses constructed for these individuals acted on the plantar foot while in relaxed bipedal stance the same way that they would when these same individuals walked, by altering the ground reaction forces on the plantar foot. Then, if this assumption is valid, which I believe it is, then one could certainly make the inference from our research as to how varying degrees of varus and valgus wedging on an orthosis may or may not affect the kinematics and kinetics of the foot during gait.
If you read the disclaimer at the end of the paper, we do make mention of the fact that to compare this static study to what happens during gait, one must be very careful. However, to say there is "zero correlation" of what we see statically with foot orthoses to dynamic function, I think shows a lack of understanding how foot orthoses function to cause the kinematic and kinetic changes during weightbearing activities.
Graham, how do you propose that foot orthoses function to change the kinetics and kinematics of gait? From your comments, you must think that the kinetic and kinematic changes that occur with orthoses are purely neurological in origin, and not caused mechanically by altering the ground reaction forces on the plantar foot.
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
Re: Static Response of Maximally Pronated and Non-maximally Pronated Feet to Frontal Plane Orthosis Wedging
Interesting research. It would also be interesting to repeat this study with functional foot orthoses with 2mm/4mm/6mm/8mm medial skives at 15 degrees and compare those findings to this study. Any thoughts? Would a 6mm heel skive change calcaneal position in the frontal plane as much/more/less than a 10 degree rearfoot varus wedge???
Re: Static Response of Maximally Pronated and Non-maximally Pronated Feet to Frontal Plane Orthosis Wedging
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham
We already know there is no correlation between static measurments, observed static pronation and dynamic function.
Graham
Hi Graham,
Do you have any references regarding this statement? The area of tests and assessment methods which are predictive of dynamic function is a big interest of mine and currently top of the list regarding my upcoming Masters degree thesis
Re: Static Response of Maximally Pronated and Non-maximally Pronated Feet to Frontal Plane Orthosis Wedging
Hello all
Although I would not say there is no correlation between static measures and kinematic function, I would agree there tends to be a fair ammount of literature that notes that static measures are poor at predicting kinematic function as I have found doing some reading for my masters.
References are as follows Ian (some are a few yaers old but have fairly good methodology):
Hamill J. Bates BT. Knutzen KM. Kirkpatrick GM. 1989. Relationship Between Selected Static and Dynamic Lower Extremity Measures. Clinical Biomechanics; 4(4): 217-225
Hunt AE. Fahey AJ. Smith RM. 2000. Static Measures of Calcaneal Deviation and Arch Angle as Predictors of Rearfoot Motion During Walking. Australian Journal of Physiotherapy; 46: 9-16
Harradine PD. Bevan LS. Carter N. 2003. Gait Dysfunction and Podiatric Therapy – Part 1: Foot-based models and Orthotic Management. British Journal of Podiatry; 6(1): 5-11
McPoil TG. Cornwall MW. 1996. The Relationship Between Static Lower Extremity Measurements and Rearfoot Motion During Walking. Journal of Orthopaedic and Sports Physical Therapy; 24(5): 309-314
Halstead J. Redmond AC. 2006. Weight-Bearing Passive Dorsiflexion of the Hallux in Standing is Not Related to Hallux Dorsiflexion During Walking. Journal of Orthopaedic and Sports Physical Therapy; 36(8): 550-556
Cheers
Mark
The Following User Says Thank You to Cooking Pod For This Useful Post:
Re: Static Response of Maximally Pronated and Non-maximally Pronated Feet to Frontal Plane Orthosis Wedging
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
Hi Graham,
Do you have any references regarding this statement? The area of tests and assessment methods which are predictive of dynamic function is a big interest of mine and currently top of the list regarding my upcoming Masters degree thesis
Thanks in advance
Ian
Colleagues:
Here are some articles that do show a correlation between static measures and dynamic function:
The Ability to Predict Dynamic Foot Posture from Static Measurements
Melinda M. Franettovich, BPhty (HonsI) *, Thomas G. McPoil, PhD, PT, ATC , Trevor Russell, BPhty, PhD *, Gillian Skardoon, BPhty (Hons2A) * and Bill Vicenzino, BPhty, GradDipSportsPhty, MSc, PhD *
* Department of Physiotherapy, University of Queensland, St. Lucia, Brisbane, Australia.
Department of Physical Therapy, Gait Research Laboratory, Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff.
Corresponding author: Bill Vicenzino, BPhty, GradDipSportsPhty, MSc, PhD, Department of Physiotherapy, University of Queensland, St. Lucia, Brisbane, QLD 4072 Australia.
Abstract
Background: A study was undertaken to investigate the ability to predict dynamic foot posture from static measurements.
Methods: Arch height and arch height ratio measurements were obtained from videotape images of the medial aspect of the foot during standing, walking, and jogging in 5 male and 13 female asymptomatic subjects.
Results: Arch height and arch height ratio measurements taken in standing explained 66% to 83% of the variance associated with these measurements at midstance during walking and running. Arch height and arch height ratio demonstrated high reliability as static and dynamic measures.
Conclusions: The results of this study support the use of arch height and arch height ratio measurements taken statically in the clinical assessment of the foot and may assist the clinician in estimating foot posture during dynamic activity in patients with lower-limb injuries. (J Am Podiatr Med Assoc 97(2): 115–120, 2007)
Use of the Longitudinal Arch Angle to Predict Dynamic Foot Posture in Walking
Thomas G. McPoil, PhD, PT, ATC * and Mark W. Cornwall, PhD, PT, CPed *
* Department of Physical Therapy, Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff.
Corresponding author: Thomas G. McPoil, PhD, PT, ATC, Department of Physical Therapy, Northern Arizona University, PO Box 15105, Flagstaff, AZ 86011.
Abstract
To determine whether differences exist in the longitudinal arch angle based on sex or extremity, the longitudinal arch angle was assessed in 21 men and 21 women using a digital image of the medial aspect of each subject’s feet. The image was obtained with the subject in relaxed standing posture and in maximum internal rotation of the lower leg. To determine whether the longitudinal arch angle could be used to predict dynamic foot posture during walking, 50 different subjects were asked to walk across a 6-m walkway while the medial aspect of each foot was videotaped. The longitudinal arch angle was digitized from digital images obtained at midstance for three walking trials. No differences in the longitudinal arch angle were found based on sex or extremity. The longitudinal arch angles obtained in the static positions of relaxed standing posture and maximum internal rotation were highly predictive of dynamic foot posture at midstance during walking. Relaxed standing posture and maximum internal rotation significantly contributed to explaining more than 90% of the variance associated with the longitudinal arch angle position at midstance during walking. These results validate use of the longitudinal arch angle as part of the foot and ankle physical examination. (J Am Podiatr Med Assoc 95(2): 114–120, 2005)
Quote:
Foot Ankle Int. 1994 Mar;15(3):141-5.
Relationship between neutral subtalar joint position and pattern of rearfoot motion during walking.
McPoil T, Cornwall MW.
Department of Physical Therapy, Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff 86011.
The purpose of this study was to determine the relationship between the angle formed by the rearfoot when the subtalar joint is positioned in neutral and the pattern of rearfoot motion during walking. Each lower extremity for 50 healthy young adult subjects (mean age 25.5 years) was videotaped and the pattern of rearfoot motion was assessed using two-dimensional analysis. The results indicate that the rearfoot is slightly inverted before heel strike and that the average time to maximum pronation occurs at approximately 37.9% of the stance phase duration. Contrary to a previously published theory, the "neutral" position of the rearfoot for the typical pattern of rearfoot motion during the walking cycle was found to be resting standing foot posture rather than subtalar joint neutral position.
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
Re: Static Response of Maximally Pronated and Non-maximally Pronated Feet to Frontal Plane Orthosis Wedging
Ah Kevin!
Quote:
Now, Graham, this is a rather myopic view of our research. If one had a more broad-minded perspective of our research
,
Is this an elegant theorist calling the clinical evidence based kettle black?
o
Quote:
ne could say that the foot orthoses constructed for these individuals acted on the plantar foot while in relaxed bipedal stance the same way that they would when these same individuals walked, by altering the ground reaction forces on the plantar foot.
or one could say that at one miniscule of a second throughout the whole gait cycle that the foot orthoses constructed for these individuals MIGHT act on the plantar foot while in relaxed bipedal stance the same way that they would when these same individuals walked, by altering the ground reaction forces on the plantar foot. However, is there such a thing as relaxed calcaneal stance during dynamic function?
Quote:
Then, if this assumption is valid, which I believe it is, then one could certainly make the inference from our research as to how varying degrees of varus and valgus wedging on an orthosis may or may not affect the kinematics and kinetics of the foot during gait.
Then, if this assumption is NOT valid, considering that most assumptions are just that, it is very unlikely that you can infer anything from this research except that on the feet tested a wedge did this in static stance! Considering the variables associated with rearfoot/forefoot measurements, and there not so correlated effect on dynamic function, this type of research can only be assumed within the assumptions of an assumed theory.
G
Quote:
raham, how do you propose that foot orthoses function to change the kinetics and kinematics of gait? From your comments, you must think that the kinetic and kinematic changes that occur with orthoses are purely neurological in origin, and not caused mechanically by altering the ground reaction forces on the plantar foot.
Another assumption. I have seen, using in-shoe pressure measurement, how various orthoses prescriptions affect multiple gait parameters. I "believe" that the primary effect of a device is mechanical (no evidence to support this assumption) but suspect that there must be some neurolgical effect. What is apparent is that varus heel and forefoot wedges dynamically would not produce the desired or consistent correction of foot function, especially in individuals who's static stance position appears to be similar,when timing of events & peak/total pressures etc are tested, as one would expect from the theoretical assumptions.
Some references I have, some repeated:
5. Sims DS & Cavanagh PR (1991): Selected Foot Mechanics Related to the Prescription of Foot Orthoses. In: Jahss MH (ed)Disorders of the Foot and Ankle: Medical and Surgical Management 2nd ed. Philadelphia: WB Saunders
6. Smith-Oricchio K & Harris BA (1990): Interator Reliability of Subtaler Joint Neutral, Calcaneal Inversion and Eversion. Journal of Orthopaedic and Sports Physical Therapy. 12(1) 10 -15.
7. Pierrynowski, M., Smith, S..B. and Mlynarczyk, J.H. (1996). Profficiency of Foot Care Specialists to Place the Rearfoot at Subtalar Joint Neutral Position. Journal of the American Podiatric Medical Association 86 (5) 217-223.
8. Menz HB (1995) Clinical Hindfoot Measurement - A Critical review of the Literature. The Foot 5:57-64
10. Knutzen KM & Price A (1994): Lower Extremity Static and Dynamic Relationships with Rearfoot Motion in Gait. Joournal of the American Podiatric Medical Association 84 (4) 171-180.
11.McPoil, T.G. &Cornwall, M.W. (1996): The relationship between static lower extremity measurements and rearfoot motion during walking. Journal. of Orthopedic and Sports Physical Therapy. . 24. No.5. pp 309-314.
25.Cavanagh, P.R and Ulbrecht, J.S. (1994) Clinical plantar pressure measurement in diabetes: rationale and methodology. The Foot. Vol 4. pp 123 - 135.
26. Bosjen-Moller, F. (1979). Calcaneocuboid joint and stability of the longitudinal arch of the foot at high and low gear push off. Anat. Soc. GB & I. Pp165-176.
27.Bennet, P.J., Miskewitch, V. and Duplock, L.R. (1996). Quantitative analysis of the effects of custom-molded orthoses. JAPMA. Vol.86. No.7. July. pp 307-310.
28. Scherer, P. (1994). The center of pressure index in the evaluation of foot orthoses in shoes. In Book of abstracts, 4th anual EMED users meeting. pp 44.
29. Rose, N.E, Fiewell LA, Cracchiolo III, A. (1992). A Method for Measuring Foot Pressures Using a High Resolution Computerized Insole Sensor: The Effect of Heel Wedges on Plantar Pressure Distribution and Center of Force. Foot & Ankle. Vol 13. No. 5. June
31. Winter, D.A. (1995). Human balance and posture control during standing and walking. Gait & Posture. Vol.3. No.4. Dec.
32. Winter, D.A. and Scott, S. (1991). Technique for interpretation of electrodynography for concentric contractions in gait. J. Electromyogr. Kinesiol. Vol.1. pp 263.
33. Sutherland, D.H., Cooper, L. and Daniel, D. (1980). The role of the ankle plantar flexors in normal walking. The J. of Joint and Bone Surgery. Vol.62-A. No.3. April. pp354-363.
34. Murray, M.P., Guten, G.N., Sepic, S.B., Gardner, G.M. and Baldwin, J.M. (1978). Function of the triceps surae during gait. J. of Bone and Joint Surgery. Vol. 60-A. No.4. June. pp 473-476.
35. Simon, S.R., Mann, R.A., Hagy, J.L. and Larsen, L.J. (1978). Role of the posterior calf muscles in normal gait. The J.of Joint and Bone Surgery. Vol.60-A. No.4. June. pp 465-472.
36. Brandell, B.R. (1977). Functional Roles of the Calf and Vastus Muscles in Locomotion. Am.J.Phys. Med. 56: pp 59-74.
37.Sutherland, D.H. (1966). An electromyographic study of the plantar flexors of the ankle in normal walking on the level. J. of Bone and Joint Srgery. Vol.48-A. Jan. pp66-71.
38. Close, J.R. and Todd, F.N. (1959). The Phasic Activity of Muscles of the Lower Extremity and the Effects of Tendon Transfer. J. Bone and Joint Surg. 41-A: pp 189-208, March.
39. Eberhart, H.D., Inman, V.T., Saunders, J.B., Levens, A.S., Bresler, B. And McCowam, T.D. (1947). Fundamental studies of human locomotion and other information relating to the design of artificial limbs. A report to the National Research Council, Committee on Artificial Limbs. Berkley, University of California.
Regards
__________________
__________________
Graham Curryer
None of us know what we are doing, but some of us know more about what we are not doing than others!::
Re: Static Response of Maximally Pronated and Non-maximally Pronated Feet to Frontal Plane Orthosis Wedging
Kevin,
It is rather disingenius to select specific research which may support an argument, although when reviewing the overall picture there is not a consistant body of work that does.
Also,
Quote:
Conclusions: The results of this study support the use of arch height and arch height ratio measurements taken statically in the clinical assessment of the foot and may assist the clinician in estimating foot posture during dynamic activity in patients with lower-limb injuries. (J Am Podiatr Med Assoc 97(2): 115–120, 2007)
but does this "foot Posture" correlate to symptoms, and how do we assess the dynamic effect of an orthoses on foot posture, such as arch height, when we can only assess the dynamic function of a device in a shoe?
Does the arch fall or is the first ray elevated?
We get back to the difference between the assumption that a study supports a theory and our inability, or unwillingness, to test the assumption with the available tools.
Regards
__________________
Graham Curryer
None of us know what we are doing, but some of us know more about what we are not doing than others!::
Re: Static Response of Maximally Pronated and Non-maximally Pronated Feet to Frontal Plane Orthosis Wedging
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham
Kevin,
It is rather disingenius to select specific research which may support an argument, although when reviewing the overall picture there is not a consistant body of work that does.
Graham:
Always good hearing your views. We, the authors of the paper in question, fully realized that we were doing a static, not a dynamic, study of the mechanical effects of foot orthoses on the human foot. In fact, here is the last few paragraphs of the paper that is our disclaimer regarding our research.
Quote:
Extrapolation of the results of our study to the clinical environment should be carried out cautiously because of certain limitations of the research. First, even though calcaneal stance position measurements have been shown to have a good to excellent intrarater reliability in several studies,41–43 no studies have assessed the reliability of measurements of calcaneal position with orthoses. Therefore, we have assumed that our measurement reliability with foot orthoses is the same as those studies where calcaneal position was measured without the subject standing on orthoses. Second, the static nature of our study may not necessarily represent the mechanical behavior of the foot during dynamic activities, such as walking or running. We are considering conducting similar research in the dynamic environment of walking to see if similar changes in rearfoot position are noted with varus- and valgus-wedged foot orthoses. Also, measurements in our study were made in double-limb static stance where approximately half the body weight was applied to each foot, whereas, in walking during the middle of midstance, the ground reaction force approximates body weight. This ground reaction force discrepancy between the present study and walking certainly may prevent direct extrapolation to the dynamics of walking. Third, another possible limitation of the study was that all foot orthoses made in the study were made of the same shell thickness (ie, 4 mm polypropylene) regardless of the weight or foot morphology of the participant. The use of 4 mm polypropylene as a standard shell thickness may have allowed participants with different body weights and foot shapes to deform the plates of the orthosis differently than other participants. However, a case could also be made that by standardizing the orthosis shell to the commonly used 4 mm shell thickness, another variable that may have influenced the study results was eliminated. Finally, since the study was composed of asymptomatic volunteers, the participants enrolled in the study may not have responded to the orthoses in the same way that an injured patient may have responded. It is recommended that further studies be conducted that compare asymptomatic to symptomatic individuals to see if these subject groups would show differing mechanical responses to foot orthoses.
We do have another paper that will be published soon in JAPMA that studies the dynamics of gait with varus and valgus wedges (Effect of 7 Degree Varus and Valgus Rearfoot Wedging on Rearfoot Kinematics and Kinetics during the Stance Phase of Walking). You can then protest, Graham, that this dynamic study had absolutely nothing to do with people that stand all day at work on foot orthoses.
I am still waiting for you, Graham, to publish just one research study so that I can critique your work also. I won't hold my breath.
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
Re: Static Response of Maximally Pronated and Non-maximally Pronated Feet to Frontal Plane Orthosis Wedging
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham
Don't, I am just one of us Canadian clinicians without any resources other than an inquisitive mind!
Graham:
And a good clinician at that! I appeciate the dialogue on our paper and don't mind the challenges since they are certainly healthy.....in a Curryer sort of way.....
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
Re: Static Response of Maximally Pronated and Non-maximally Pronated Feet to Frontal Plane Orthosis Wedging
Kevin,
A
Quote:
nd a good clinician at that! I appeciate the dialogue on our paper and don't mind the challenges since they are certainly healthy.....in a Curryer sort of way.....
likewise my friend
__________________
Graham Curryer
None of us know what we are doing, but some of us know more about what we are not doing than others!::
Re: Static Response of Maximally Pronated and Non-maximally Pronated Feet to Frontal Plane Orthosis Wedging
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham
It is rather disingenius to select specific research which may support an argument, although when reviewing the overall picture there is not a consistant body of work that does.
In this issue of static measures versus dynamic function there are many static measurements that will have no predictive value in dynamic function. That does not mean that the few that are picked out do not show a corelation with dynamic function. You have to look at the individual measurements.
Re: Static Response of Maximally Pronated and Non-maximally Pronated Feet to Frontal Plane Orthosis Wedging
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham
Gavin,
No. Unless you want to make a device for a subject who stands still and never walks, this research is...irrelevant..... to the dynamic influence the orthoses has on each individual.
We already know there is no correlation between static measurments, observed static pronation and dynamic function. It would be reasonable to deduce that the static devices used in this research would also demonstrate a 0 correlation to dynamic function.
Graham
Graham,
Thank you very much for your comments of our paper recently published. I appreciate the critics that help us to improve the quailty of our research.
You are right when you said that there is no correlation between observed static pronation and dynamic function... However, the paper studied the "static correction" of the device, not the observed pronation... Those are different things. Till date, I do not know of any study that has proven that the static correction of foot orthoses is not correlated with the dynamic correction of foot orthoses. No one of the studies you cited have proven that.
I have only read three articles that measured correction of frontal rearfoot angles in static stance and dynamic:
1. Genova JM, Gross MT. Effect of foot orthotics on calcaneal eversion during standing and treadmill walking for subjects with abnormal pronation. At least, I think there is no evidence of that subject. J Orthop Sports Phys Ther. 2000 Nov;30(11):664-75.
2. McCulloch MU, Brunt D, Vander Linden D. The effect of foot orthotics and gait velocity on lower limb kinematics and temporal events of stance. J Orthop Sports Phys Ther. 1993 Jan;17(1):2-10.
3. Novick A, Kelley DL. Position and movement changes of the foot with orthotic intervention during the loading response of gait. J Orthop Sports Phys Ther 1990; 11: 301-312.
No one of these papers measured the degreee of correlation (or lack of) between static and dynamic correction with foot orthoses. By reading the articles I can tell you that the first one obtained a correction of 4.8 º in static stance (orthotic + shoe) and a dynamic correction 2.2º of peak eversion. McCulloch et al. obtained a 3.3º correction in static stance and 3.35º in peak calcaneal eversion. Finally, Novick and Kelley obtained a static correction of 2.39º and dynamic correction between 3º. However, I repeat, no one of these papers measured the degree of correlation between static and dynamic correction with foot orthoses.
We recomend (in the discussion of the paper to observe the results cautiously because of the static nature of the research. However, till we found evidences that the "static correction" of foot orthoses is absolutely no correlated with dynamic "correction" I would not say that this article is "irrelevant".
Thak you very much for your comments, again, we appreciate the critics that help us to improve the quailty of our research.
Kind regards
__________________
Javier Pascual Huerta Departamento de Podología
Universidad Europea de Madrid
Madrid, Spain
Cuando una ortesis no hace daño deberíamos alegrarnos y no exigir además que sirva para algo.
Re: Static Response of Maximally Pronated and Non-maximally Pronated Feet to Frontal Plane Orthosis Wedging
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javier Pascual
Graham,
Thank you very much for your comments of our paper recently published. I appreciate the critics that help us to improve the quailty of our research.
You are right when you said that there is no correlation between observed static pronation and dynamic function... However, the paper studied the "static correction" of the device, not the observed pronation... Those are different things. Till date, I do not know of any study that has proven that the static correction of foot orthoses is not correlated with the dynamic correction of foot orthoses. No one of the studies you cited have proven that.
I have only read three articles that measured correction of frontal rearfoot angles in static stance and dynamic:
1. Genova JM, Gross MT. Effect of foot orthotics on calcaneal eversion during standing and treadmill walking for subjects with abnormal pronation. At least, I think there is no evidence of that subject. J Orthop Sports Phys Ther. 2000 Nov;30(11):664-75.
2. McCulloch MU, Brunt D, Vander Linden D. The effect of foot orthotics and gait velocity on lower limb kinematics and temporal events of stance. J Orthop Sports Phys Ther. 1993 Jan;17(1):2-10.
3. Novick A, Kelley DL. Position and movement changes of the foot with orthotic intervention during the loading response of gait. J Orthop Sports Phys Ther 1990; 11: 301-312.
No one of these papers measured the degreee of correlation (or lack of) between static and dynamic correction with foot orthoses. By reading the articles I can tell you that the first one obtained a correction of 4.8 º in static stance (orthotic + shoe) and a dynamic correction 2.2º of peak eversion. McCulloch et al. obtained a 3.3º correction in static stance and 3.35º in peak calcaneal eversion. Finally, Novick and Kelley obtained a static correction of 2.39º and dynamic correction between 3º. However, I repeat, no one of these papers measured the degree of correlation between static and dynamic correction with foot orthoses.
We recomend (in the discussion of the paper to observe the results cautiously because of the static nature of the research. However, till we found evidences that the "static correction" of foot orthoses is absolutely no correlated with dynamic "correction" I would not say that this article is "irrelevant".
Thak you very much for your comments, again, we appreciate the critics that help us to improve the quailty of our research.
Kind regards
Javier:
Thanks for your reply on our paper. You are an excellent role model for other podiatrists from your wonderful country. Keep up the good work!
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
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Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College