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I had Parish & Bell make me two pairs of orthotics almost two years ago, for a cost of nearly £1500 (however with a 100% money back guarantee if you're not cured, I thought this was worth it). The orthotics didnt cure my foot issues, and I went for three re-fittings all unsuccessful. I called them again in mid-january for another and final re-fitting before asking for my money back and their telephone line had a recorded messages saying 'please call back during office hours'.
Since then I've called back approx 25-30 time in the last month all during business hours and they're simply not picking up their phones or nobody is there to pick it up. Also, they're not responding to email communications (emailed office manager and their admin person). Despite all this their website is still up advertising for their usual services.
All this leads me to believe that the company has either gone bankrupt, and/or they've simply cut and run with money from all their clients to avoid having to pay people back.
If it were me I would be inclined to attempt to make an appointment as a new patient. If they are still offering services the 'back door' & undercover until you spring the surprise may provide a face to face contact. Other than that I suggest contacting Trading Standards & lodging a formal complaint againt the Co. for the goods you were sold.
Hope you get your refund.
Regards,
Mandy.
__________________
:)
twirly
Mandy Brooks
Brooks Podiatry
S64 0DE
Suffering a fondness for odd things.
“ Though the mills of God grind slowly;
Yet they grind exceeding small;
Though with patience he stands waiting,
With exactness grinds he all. ”
We did try to ring them from the Manchester Boot Camp when the above message was posted. We got a recorded message: "Currently closed....open business hours Mon-Fri 9 -5" ... it was 2.00PM when we rung!
One person at the mtg did think they had heard that they gone under ... watch this space.
__________________ Craig Payne
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________ Follow me on Twitter | Run Junkie God put me on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things - right now I am so far behind, I will never die.
Unfortunately, this is a common scenario of events with this company, although this is the first I've heard of there being no reply at all.
My clinic is not that far away from Carshalton and I've had many an angry patient who has experienced the hard sell, spent an awful lot of money and not been happy with the results either. Some patients were frightened off by the hard selling techniques they use and didn't want to even embark on any treatment from them in the first place.
If they have gone down, quite frankly, it's no wonder....
Parish and Bell said their success rates were compiled in house from their computer data. They said it was based on the number of patients who had requested a refund under their money back guarantee. They provided updated figures, which demonstrated that 99% of the patients they treated did not request a refund.
Whether P and B have gone under or not, they have demonstrated quite clearly that the Adertising Standards Authority in the UK is highly ineffective when dealing with this type of service.
P and B were merely asked to remove the 98% cure-rate claim from their adverts.
They responded (I believe) by lowering their claim rate slightly and providing "audit data" to show that this was now correct. At worst this would give them a good breathing space before the next ASA adjudication. At best, the ASA would believe the figures and do nothing.
For anyone in the UK who has not seen the adverts, they advertised heavily (1/2-page ads) in national newspapers, sometimes on a weekly basis.
I bought two pairs of soles from them the biggest pile of C---p you ever did see. Had to go to credit card company to get my money back as they refued to refund my money. Got it back through credit card company.
Just rung the phone number now and the line has been cut off.
Well worth investing £2.00 in companies house as he has 4 companies running , he claims the soles are made in America !!!.
The office staff were vvery rude when you phoned and he could not be bothered to reply to your letters it was always some one in the office who replyed you could never speak to him direct.
Well Mr Bailey if you had treated your customers with respect and looked after us all instead of ripping us off you would still have had a business.
The Following User Says Thank You to For This Useful Post:
"Political Correctness" is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end
I happen to know one of the labs in the U.S.A. that manufacturers their products. I spoke with the owner of the lab, and he informed me that Parish & Bell is out of business.
He didn't tell me, but from his "inference" I believe that they also owe him some money. He also told me that he believed the plan was for P&B to "re-structure" and re-open sometime in the near future.
Buyer beware. Unfortunately another sucker will be born.
"Political Correctness" is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end
As I said in my introductory message, I wish I'd known about this forum before...
I spent my fortune with Parish & Bell in the autumn. I was desperate as I have a heel spur and my hard orthotics hurt so much I was in pain with every step I took.
I couldn't believe the price and had an image in my mind of being held over a barrel...
I didn't enjoy the company of Mr Les Bailey and have regretted not doing more thorough research before getting involved with the company.
However, I'm rambling:-) and could go on!!!!!!
Last week being unable to get a response from the office, I contacted the local press and I had a phone-call about a half-hour ago to say it's confirmed, they've gone into voluntary liquidation.
The Insolvency practioners are:
Mark Bloom
60-62 Old London Rd
Kingston
KT2 6QZ
Perhaps we should get together or all contact 'You and Yours' the cosumer prog. on Radio 4 so they can do a proper investigation into him with a hope of this not reoccurring in the future.
No offense, but this is not a "chat" forum, but really is a forum for medical professionals. Therefore I'm not sure that this is the right place for your concerns or needs.
This is not a forum for patients or consumers, but a forum for medical professionals.
I too have been trying to contact P & B without success.
I had 3 (three) !! pairs of orthotics - cost £1800.00 - from them from june 2007 but they need the tops repairing already & one pair needs re-adjusting to its original specification.
Anyone know where I can get the tops replaced on these and work done on them by a (reputable) company ?
I too felt under enormous pressure to get these orthotics - when you are in pain you will go for anything that sounds good (too good to be true actually).
I realise that I'm not a medical professional but having read all the emails in this particular thread, it appeared to me not all the posts are from professionals.
It was my intention to help others too by sharing information- that was my initial concern but then I ended up writing some history- apologies for that!
I am Les Bailey and I would like to reply to much of the downright slanderous rubbish i have read on this forum, posted by "professionals" who should know better.
Firstly, Parish and Bell is sadly in liquidation after many years of very successful work.
The inaccuracies writen about the 98.95% success rate and trading standards are totally mid-read. Firstly, it was not decided that they could not quantify this accurately and we were [u]never[u] prosecuted for this but merely advised it may be better to change it to over 90%.
The reasons Parish and Bell went into liquidation are many-fold, but I will outline factors, none of which relate at all to our phenomenal success rate and thousands of patients cleared of pain where standard orthotics were unable to help.
We used an Irish laboratory for a while, as opposed to our usual american lab. The samples and promises of superior orthotics were not forthcoming and most of these were replaced by us using our usual USA lab. In hindsight, I feel this lab's clinics were in competition with us and my own personal feeling is that these were pusposefully mis-made to bring about our financial collapse. In short, what was promised and what transpired were two very different orthotics. However, we replaced these for patients at our own vast cost.
Our bank were calling in overdrafts and loans at the same time we received huge tax bills and , like many companies in the credit crunch, we collapsed.
I realise we upset many podiatrists along the way by monopolising the market but our success rate was phenomenally higher and despite the negativity inaccurately displayed by people on this thread, we helped thousands of patients where other orthotics had failed.
If anyone thinks for one minute that this liquidation was in some strange way a means of "scamming" people they are very very wrong. We enjoyed many fine years helping our patients and would have liked to continue had circumstances allowed us.
If it is of any consolation to anyone, I myself am going babkrupt with the difficulties this bring to my family ahead, so I too am in the same boat.
The professionals posting on this thread may take note that I am passing the slanderous posts (sadly nearly all) to our lawyers.
Finally, to our patients, I am deeply and truly sorry if you are one who has lost money and I would like you to know this was in no way intended.
All of our past failures (luckily very few!) received their promised refunds and I truly regret we cannot do this for the very recent ones.
I have read some nauseating posts in my time but yours beats em all
Well done
I have a practice very close to one of your shops in fact your chiropractor sends me many of your failures to sort out.
I find the 80 year olds that you have charged £1000's of pounds to "cure them" (which failed miserably BTW) for your orthotics that came to me in tears because they were not only in pain but IMHO had been ripped off by your organisation
The others who's orthotics had "failed" who couldn't face the "pressure "of bringing them back for the sales pitch also need a mention.
Quote:
We used an Irish laboratory for a while, as opposed to our usual american lab. The samples and promises of superior orthotics were not forthcoming and most of these were replaced by us using our usual USA lab. In hindsight, I feel this lab's clinics were in competition with us and my own personal feeling is that these were pusposefully mis-made to bring about our financial collapse
And the NAME of the Irish orthotics lab is ???? ( just so none of us use them to the detriment of our patients)
Quote:
The professionals posting on this thread may take note that I am passing the slanderous posts (sadly nearly all) to our lawyers.
Go for it fella!! many of us have the evidence to back up what we are saying and patients willing to tell it like it is as well
Talk to the patient that started this thread let her put your "success rate" on the internet and see how many "dissatisfied clients" you really have
Get real Les enough is enough IMHO you've made your money ,don't make it worse for these people by giving the crocodile tears Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzze
"Political Correctness" is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end
Last edited by DTT : 26th February 2009 at 02:39 PM.
Your libelous and untrue postings show you to be very unprofessional and a disgrace to your practice.
Our success rate is based on solid facts and P&B became a hallmark for practices across the world many of whom have seeked to copy my unique orthotic structure
Of course our satisfied patients will not come on this forum as they are too busy enjoying the new freedom of life we have given them
Sadly liquidation happens all the time and this was totally and completely out of my control
Now I suggest you seek to understand that any business can fall prey to the recession
The inaccuracies writen about the 98.95% success rate and trading standards are totally mid-read. Firstly, it was not decided that they could not quantify this accurately and we were [u]never[u] prosecuted for this but merely advised it may be better to change it to over 90%.
For the edification of any following the thread, and for Mr Bailey's Lawyers this is an direct quote from the ASA website accessed today which i hope will clarify matters.
The highlights are mine.
Quote:
we considered readers were likely to understand the claim "98% success rate" to mean that Parish and Bell's treatment had been clinically proven and that 98% of patients no longer had heel pain. We considered that not all patients who had not been cured of heel pain would claim a refund and that the evidence provided was not sufficient to prove the success rate of their treatment. We considered that, in the absence of clinical studies to prove the effectiveness and success rate of the treatment, the claim was likely to mislead.
On this point, the ad breached CAP Code clauses 3.1 (Substantiation), 7.1 (Truthfulness) and 50.1 (Health & Beauty Products and Therapies).
Action
We told Parish and Bell to remove the claim "98% success rate" and to ensure that had sufficient evidence to support any similar claims. We advised them to seek guidance from the CAP Copy Advice team on their future advertising.
So. You say you were advised to change your ad. Looks to me like they say your Ad was unsubstantiated and untruthful and that you were TOLD to REMOVE the claim. Not advised, told. Their words. Seems pretty clear to me.
So one hopes that any practices who "seeked" to copy your structure, as you put it, also seek guidance from CAP with regards to advertising so that their ads do not also breach substantiation and truthfulness clauses as yours did.
Your libelous and untrue postings show you to be very unprofessional and a disgrace to your practice
A practice that still thrives through truth to the patient and professionalism obviously beyond your imagination
Quote:
Our success rate is based on solid facts and P&B became a hallmark for practices across the world many of whom have seeked to copy my unique orthotic structure
but not your IMHO EXTORTIONATE fee structure which caused much distress and financial hardship to many for no return.
Quote:
We used an Irish laboratory for a while, as opposed to our usual american lab. The samples and promises of superior orthotics were not forthcoming and most of these were replaced by us using our usual USA lab. In hindsight, I feel this lab's clinics were in competition with us and my own personal feeling is that these were pusposefully mis-made to bring about our financial collapse
I'll ask you again Mr Bailey ,You made the statement now answer the question
Quote:
And the NAME of the Irish orthotics lab is ???? ( just so none of us use them to the detriment of our patients
Quote:
Now I suggest you seek to understand that any business can fall prey to the recession
I believe , what goes around comes around Mr Bailey and you have got your just deserts ( of course IMHO)
"Political Correctness" is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end
Welcome. You have the opportunity to put your side of the story.
Quote:
The inaccuracies written about the 98.95% success rate and trading standards are totally mid-read. Firstly, it was not decided that they could not quantify this accurately and we were [u]never[u] prosecuted for this but merely advised it may be better to change it to over 90%.
I think Robert address your claims - anyone can follow the link to the ASA site and read them for themselves. To can attempt to rationalise it anyway you like, but the facts are there for anyone to see.
Quote:
The reasons Parish and Bell went into liquidation are many-fold, but I will outline factors, none of which relate at all to our phenomenal success rate and thousands of patients cleared of pain where standard orthotics were unable to help.fficeffice" />
Quote:
We used an Irish laboratory for a while, as opposed to our usual american lab. The samples and promises of superior orthotics were not forthcoming and most of these were replaced by us using our usual ffice:smarttags" />USA lab. In hindsight, I feel this lab's clinics were in competition with us and my own personal feeling is that these were purposefully mis-made to bring about our financial collapse. In short, what was promised and what transpired were two very different orthotics. However, we replaced these for patients at our own vast cost.
Our bank were calling in overdrafts and loans at the same time we received huge tax bills and , like many companies in the credit crunch, we collapsed.
I love the way you blame everyone but yourself. If your business was so successful then this would not have happened. Despite the credit crunch, banks would have supported you if your business model was any good. Tax bills should have been planned for. Are you not using the credit crunch as a scapegoat rather than accept personal responsibility? You are trying to rationalise it by blaming everyone else! (and I know more about that than you think)
Quote:
I realise we upset many podiatrists along the way by monopolising the market but our success rate was phenomenally higher and despite the negativity inaccurately displayed by people on this thread, we helped thousands of patients where other orthotics had failed.
I doubt that. If you have upset Podiatrists its because of all the patients that they get to see that have been subjected to the high pressure sales tactics and prices for your product that is bordering on extortion. It not jealousy, it more concern at your ethical principles in doing what you do.
Quote:
If anyone thinks for one minute that this liquidation was in some strange way a means of "scamming" people they are very very wrong. We enjoyed many fine years helping our patients and would have liked to continue had circumstances allowed us.
Then prove it by making good personally on those who want their money back. I think, based on the prices you were charging and the unsupported claims about the unique nature of your product, its pretty damn close to a scam. You obviously saw a place in the market to make a fast buck - companies eventually tend to go under that use that as a business model.
Essentially the product that you were offering is no different to what is very widely available for a fraction of the price. You made claims about your product that are not sustainable. In fact, all the evidence from well designed randomised controlled trials is that cheaper prefabricated foot orthotics get the same outcomes for heel pain as the type of product you are offering (but as an self proclaimed expert on foot orthoses, you will be familiar with this evidence).
Obviously, many of those who were not happy were NOT returning for refunds (see the posts above from Podiatrists who had to sort the mess out).
You made a choice to charge what is close to being an extortionate price for the product. You made claims about the product that are not supported. Most of the claims you made on your website about what you were doing is not supportable with the evidence, and would be very easy to rebuff in a court of law. It is easy to go through your website and breakdown and rebuff so much of what you claim. I think what you were doing is, at best, a scam and, at worst, fraud.
You make claims above about:
Quote:
untrue postings show you to be very unprofessional and a disgrace to your practice
Quote:
downright slanderous rubbish i have read on this forum, posted by "professionals"
Were is your “professionalism” and “ethics” in the context of the many untrue claims you make on your website (would love to argue those with you in a court of law as they will be easy to deal with), the untrue unique claims about your product and the close to extortionist price you charge (when the same product is available for a fraction of the cost in many other places)
Quote:
The professionals posting on this thread may take note that I am passing the slanderous posts (sadly nearly all) to our lawyers.
Please do. We love hearing from lawyers. We will have fun with them.
With luck this thread will rank high on the search engines and the world can see what has happened
check your website proofreader - you have spelt plantar fasciitis wrong - i was going to come to see u but that worried me that a medical professional could not spell a medical condition correctly
mrs 12345
Call me old fashioned but does this smack of.......
Reply
Quote:
Sorry about that, web designers are not medical professionals and as my web site has been around for many years ( faults and all) and brings me in all the work I need , perhaps I can redirect you to Parish and bell which I'm sure you know is the world leader in podiatry biomechanics.
They I'm sure will accommodate you as my schedule doesn't allow for people that are more interested in spelling rather than proper and professional clinical expertise and care.
Of course I send my best wishes and please don’t contact me( this practice) again
My choice
Followed by
Quote:
parish and bell - are they in the reigate area? are they good then - it is nice when people refer to other practices - thank you
do you have their te
it was incomplete at that point
Sad innit
The fact is as you said we are commenting on the ETHICS of the business and if the foregoing has any bearing...
Game set and match to us ??
Cheers
Del or Mr ( I do have an FSSCh) Harland (for mr Baileys sake)
"Political Correctness" is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end
Excellent post Craig and probably what all of us are thinking. They charged in some cases quadruple the high end of the going rate for in-shoe devices made by a lab here in the U.S. that at least one D.P.M. that I am friendly with has used for years. I know for a fact that he doesn't charge anywhere near this amount for orthoses, nor does he proffer them on every patient who walks in his doors.
Craig's comment that you take no responsibility for the events of late is the absolute truth. Name the lab who you allude to in the statement that your products "were purposefully mis-made to bring about our financial collapse". I would like them to have the opportunity to respond to your outright suspect recrimination. Perhaps their lawyers would like to get together with your lawyers....etc?
I am curious where Les and Colin learned their trade in orthoses? Colin is a McTimoney (?) chiropractor and you are an osteopath as I understand it? Just what are the number of didactic hours of education devoted in either college to the process of evaluation, diagnosis, treatment, goal planning, design and manufacture of foot orthoses in either program?
I can tell you with all due certainty that in the required chiropractic curriculum it is zero. I had to become a certified pedorthist before becoming acutely aware that my skills were inferior to the experts, podiatrists, and have spent many years studying the subject prior to feeling even remotely competent in the subject (and I am still learning and still charge a modest fee) but you and your staff are the experts? That takes all!
Shame on you Mr. Bailey.
__________________
"If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true is really true, there would be little hope of advance." - Orville Wright
David G. Wedemeyer, D.C., C.Ped.
The Following User Says Thank You to David Wedemeyer For This Useful Post:
Ironically, I am a moderator on another website forum that deals with heel pain and other foot/ankle ailments. Over the past several days patients from the UK have suddenly been "popping up" looking for a resolution to their nightmare experiences with Parish & Bell.
Many have had poor results, many need adjustments, many want refunds, many have been promised that their problems would be resolved, etc. But the greatest and most unacceptable "CRIME" was that many paid hard earned money for SEVERAL pairs, when Mr. Bailey apparently knew that his business was closing and that the orthoses were never going to be delivered.
Patients stated that they paid for orthoses or were sold orthoses right up to the "end", which is in direct contrast to Mr. Bailey's statement that he tried to make restitution to all those he could. If that's the case, why was he still taking orders and money???
All I know from the other website, is that there are a LOT of unhappy customers. If I was Mr. Bailey, I would not want to walking around the streets near the old establishment without wearing a disguise
Man, I love this stuff. Always have enjoyed the movies where the bad guy gets what he deserves in the end. Divine justice....some would say.
And, in regards to the threats for legal action, one of the orthopedic surgeons I worked with for many years had a great line for those who said that they were going to sue him.........
"Take a number and get in line!!"
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
Ironically, I am a moderator on another website forum that deals with heel pain and other foot/ankle ailments. Over the past several days patients from the UK have suddenly been "popping up" looking for a resolution to their nightmare experiences with Parish & Bell.
I had a read of the messages - very sad for the people involved with wanting help for their problems. I also came across a thread on a consumer website about them as well. Given all these disgruntled patients are coming out of the woodwork, it does make a mockery of their claims about their success rate. Some of the $ amounts being mentioned are extraordinary! ... one mentioned £2270 for 3 pairs ... how can anyone with an ounce of ethics and professionalism justify this? The lab would have only charged them around £250 for the 3 (or even less as there would have been a discount for multiple pairs!).
Also, how could any company charging those kinds of amounts and claiming such a success rate and claiming to be doing so much business, actually go out of business?
Mr Bailey
Just in case you don't understand the question
Quote:
Name the lab who you allude to in the statement that your products "were purposefully mis-made to bring about our financial collapse
You have made a very serious allegation against an orthotics laboratory who you imply are deliberately making devices to cause patients harm in an effort to damage your reputation.
What is the name of that laboratory??
I also wonder with your threats of legal action, if you have enough money to go to law with so many people ( which will cost a small fortune) would you not be better paying refunds to those you have treated so badly?
That wouldn't do your reputation any harm would it ?
Mr Wedemyer asked another question
Quote:
and you are an osteopath
What are you calling yourself these days Mr Bailey??
Is there a reason you stopped using the Osteopath title?
"Political Correctness" is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end
Thankyou for this information as i myself have been conned. Fortunately i only bought one pair which cost £650. I think the money back guarantee is what sold the product to us. people like myself who are desperate to rid ourselves of this ongoing foot pain will sometimes take risks, and this is basically what i have done. I should have read the warning signs but i was blinkered by the article in the paper and on the web site of all the successes they had had. This was £650 just thrown in the bin. I have had the orthotics three months and already they are wearing down under the first and fifth met . Upon examination of the so called wonder insole it appears that two layers have been fused together to form one very flimsy piece of work. I wish i had paid by credit card, but who has a crystal ball. If anyone discovers a way of getting their money back please let me know and vice versa.
In the upcoming year, when you decide to have a "quote of the year", I will take my first place prize NOW for my entry!!
Because there is NO WAY that Mr. Bailey's line below can not take first place. This may be the quote of the century!!!!!
"I feel this lab's clinics were in competition with us and my own personal feeling is that these were pusposefully mis-made to bring about our financial collapse".
Yes, the old "make the orthoses wrong" conspiracy. Makes a company go out of business every time.....never fails. I believe it's on page 7 of the "put your competitor out of business handbook".
Parish & Bell clinic gone under?
to show that this was now correct. At worst this would give them a good breathing space before the next ASA adjudication. At best, the ASA would believe the figures and do nothing.
ffice" />
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