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You wrote: "I recently had a myo therapist do my piriformis' etc and she does the travell and simons method-leaving the needle in after the twitch. Whereas I use the hong method.
Which do you use and/or advocate.
I presume that the "hong" method is to not leave the needles in and withdraw them straight away. Honestly, sometimes I leave them and sometimes I don't. It seems to me that the needles also have an 'area of influence' that spreads over the time that they are left in and in some cases and with certain responses I'll choose one or the other method.
So, firstly, with myofascial trigger points I'll leave them in longer if I think that the area is 'generally' tight and tender and insert a few needles in the muscle and leave them in situ for 20 odd minutes, often including some acupuncture points in support of what I'm trying to achieve. If, I'm after what seems a discrete trigger I'll often just go for the twitch and remove.
With "pecking" periosteum I tend to do that for only a few seconds! For straight acupuncture points I usually leave the needles in for 20 mins.
20 mins could be 15 or 30 mins depending on circumstances and includes some stimulation and obvious "durchi" (however it is spelt) at the points.
I've just spent a day in clinic with Dr Paul Conneely in Sydney who would be the most experienced dry needler in Australia. He usually leaves the needles in for a 5-10 mins and uses laser on the triggers while the needles are still in situ. He only uses techniques that work (and quickly). Results were outstanding, including complex, widespread chronic pain. He still mobilises the feet before starting on problem areas in other parts of the body!
Again, just a bit of concern re myotherapists. Some do a year long course in dry needling in Melbourne, others do very short workshops of a few days and do not necessarily have a comprhensive anatomy training. You're doing well for a wuss!
By the way, Simons and Travell do not advocate leaving the needles in after the "twitch' response. Their method is to inject LA into the trigger and withdraw. Often traditional acupuncture leaves the needles in for more extended periods.
Thanks oncea gain for your widespread experience Shane.
The myotherapy course that my myotherapist did is three years as RMIT and is covered by health funds.
She massaged and searched for the trigger points then kaboomed them!
very good results, but cos I'm a wuss I pulled out of Glut med so now have to go back to get it done.
She also did my right forearm, and while I was fighting huge mahi mahi, kingfish and snapper on the weekend (cobia too) only the left started to cramp.
(That was irrelevant but I needed to tell someone about my fishing exploit!)
Cheers once again
ScienceDaily are reporting: Acupuncture And Myofascial Trigger Therapy Treat Same Pain Areas
Ancient acupuncture and modern myofascial pain therapy each focus on hundreds of similar points on the body to treat pain, although they do it differently, says a physician at Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville who analyzed the two techniques.
Results of the study, published May 10 in the Journal of Complementary and Alternative Medicine, suggest that people who want relief from chronic musculoskeletal pain may benefit from either therapy, says chronic pain specialist Dr. Peter Dorsher of the Department of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation at Mayo Clinic.
"This may come as a surprise to those who perform the two different techniques, because the notion has been that these are exclusive therapies separated by thousands of years," he says. "But this study shows that in the treatment of pain disorders, acupuncture and myofascial techniques are fundamentally similar – and this is good news for anyone looking for relief."
Classic Chinese acupuncture treats pain and a variety of health disorders using fine needles to "reset" nerve transmission, Dorsher says. Needles are inserted in one or several of 361 classical acupoints to target specific organs or pain problems. "This is a very safe and effective technique," he says.
Myofascial trigger-point therapy, which has evolved since the mid-1800s, focuses on tender muscle or "trigger point" regions. There are about 255 such regions described by the Trigger Point Manual, the seminal textbook on myofascial pain. These are believed to be sensitive and painful areas of muscle and fascia, the web of soft tissue that surrounds muscle, bones, organs and other body structures. To relieve pain at these trigger points, practitioners use injections, deep pressure, massage, mechanical vibration, electrical stimulation and stretching, among other techniques.
In the study, Dorsher analyzed studies published on both techniques and demonstrated that acupuncture points and trigger points are anatomically and clinically similar in their uses for treatment of pain disorders.
In another recent study, he found that at least 92 percent of common trigger points anatomically corresponded with acupoints, and that their clinical correspondence in treating pain was more than 95 percent. "That means that the classical acupoint was in the same body region as the trigger point, was used for the same type of pain problem, and the trigger point referred pain pattern followed the meridian pathway of that acupoint described by the Chinese more than 2,000 years before," Dorsher says. Myofascial pain therapy has lately incorporated the use of acupuncture needles in a treatment called "dry needling" to treat muscle trigger points.
"I think it is fair to say that the myofascial pain tradition represents an independent rediscovery of the healing principles of traditional Chinese medicine," Dorsher says. "What likely unites these two disciplines is the nervous system, which transmits pain."
In my 20m years experience I totally disagree that most TP's are where acupuponits are.
secondly the nervous system does not transmit pain. It can only transmit pressure of temperature and the thalamus decides what it is you are experiencing
Paul Conneely. www.musmed.com.au