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Makes you wonder how they do it really, initial consultation, primary assessment, steralising, consumables, paying tax and insurance and still making a profit all for £18 ???
Is it me or............
Anyone from up that way got a full list of charges ??
Cheers
Derek
Assuming as you say the £18 charge is the entry level ( initial visit) I find it hard to see how anyone can show a working profit with all that comes in that initial visit for £18 ??
That is why I asked if anyone had/ knew a full list of charges.
FYI I worked in Sainsburys Occ health in several stores treating staff which sainsburys funded for many years. I have experienced the management attitudes and if Shuropody think they are hard done by, I hope this girl dosen't find out the hard way that unless she makes and improvement to the store turnover / profits Sainsburys store managers are renowned for being ruthless. She will be monitored at all times in all ways to check ( they have the most sophisticated surveylance /monitoring systems going, it is quite an eye opener) she will find herself out of a job.
I wish her luck too , I just dont like the charge that is published, I feel it is nowhere near enough and I fear as time goes on she will be under pressure to cut it further by managers.
I really dont think that it will bother her whether you like her charges or not.
About as much as your sarcasm bothers me I would imagine
It's just that those of us that charge a proper fee for our service get a bit fed up at times when the £18 fee is bandied around as the public perception of the profession imho regresses to that.But As davidh states
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Boots couldn't make it work - why would a supermarket chain be able to?
I had no idea that you understood the meaning of sarcasm.
You may live and work in an affluent area, but please do not think that you can speak for the rest of the country. I believe that Catherine has probably pitched it just right- as you say time will tell.
I do feel it may be a little bit of sour grapes on your part since , thankfully , you are not a member of SCP. When it counts, it is always the SCP that are asked to pass comment on Podiatric matters- what does that tell you?
Is there anyone else you would care to put down at present? What about poor students who cant afford to go to conference?
I had no idea that you understood the meaning of sarcasm.
I also know the meaning of pathetic as well, reading your posts gives me all the practice I need in pathetic.
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You may live and work in an affluent area, but please do not think that you can speak for the rest of the country. I believe that Catherine has probably pitched it just right- as you say time will tell.
I speak for no one except myself and I carry no banner for any pro body either ( unlike yourself obviously) btw don't you think it's time you dropped the grandparented bit ?? or are your really so small minded as to believe your going to change things after all this time ??
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I do feel it may be a little bit of sour grapes on your part since , thankfully , you are not a member of SCP. When it counts, it is always the SCP that are asked to pass comment on Podiatric matters- what does that tell you?
I look at the state of this profession and I'm constantly reminded of "what might have been" with unity and one voice.
But then of course we have had to tolerate people like you who have blocked that happeneing through bigotry and spite throughout.
I cant wait to retire as much as you cant wait for me to go.
So there we have it I make a post on an informed opinion your reduce it to sarcasm and bigotry as a fully paid up member of the SCP.
I apologise, I thought you said you were worried that her charges were not adequate enough for her to make a profit, and undermined the profession? I must be wrong then.
I never mentioned grandparented- is there a difference?
The state of this profession is partly due to the private trainers producing FHPs who claim to be the same as Pods.
I cannot believe you opinion was informed since you do not know the facts.
I refuse to be drawn into an FHP bashing debate by you or anyone else.
If that is what you want copy and take it back to your troll site for the delectation of others of your kind.
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I apologise, I thought you said you were worried that her charges were not adequate enough for her to make a profit, and undermined the profession? I must be wrong then.
I actually Said
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Assuming as you say the £18 charge is the entry level ( initial visit) I find it hard to see how anyone can show a working profit with all that comes in that initial visit for £18 ??
But , many of us try to raise public perception of this profession and that includes giving a professional service at a professional fee. The two are I'm afraid inextricably linked.
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I never mentioned grandparented- is there a difference?
Only we earn a lot more than you by the sound of it
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The state of this profession is partly due to the private trainers producing FHPs who claim to be the same as Pods.
Not going there .
If you are aware of and FHP / Podiatry Assistant claiming to be a Podiatrist I'm sure you are aware of the correct procedure, and it has no bearing whatsoever on this thread as admin asked stick to the thread please
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I cannot believe you opinion was informed since you do not know the facts.
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FYI I worked in Sainsburys Occ health in several stores treating staff which sainsburys funded for many years. I have experienced the management attitudes and if Shuropody think they are hard done by, I hope this girl dosen't find out the hard way that unless she makes and improvement to the store turnover / profits Sainsburys store managers are renowned for being ruthless. She will be monitored at all times in all ways to check ( they have the most sophisticated surveylance /monitoring systems going, it is quite an eye opener) she will find herself out of a job.
Puts me a bit in front of you in the workings of sainsburys I'll wager??
Of course you being the oracle in all matters please fill in the detail to which I have obviously no knowledge please.
You may find this an opportunity to parade your anti FHP flag but it has a very serious implication for all IPP's.
Every major town has a sainsburys and if the fee structure is set too low that will carry on to the rest. Personally having been on PP for a long time I KNOW how much I HAVE to charge to run a practice properly. £18 dosen't do it because it wont cover the overall expenses ( or will leave you with less than the minimum wage) so you will become a busy fool or bust.
Thank goodness you dont want an argument, I would never keep up!
As I said , neither you nor I know the facts even with your experience of Sainsburys which by your admission is a little out of date and referred to the treatment of staff and not customers, therefore we will have to wait and see.
I did not start an argument about FHP merely answered your statement with my opinion for which I apologise. Though I would agree that it is the grandparented who normally charge the greater rates in my area.
I cannot believe you feel that those of us in PP could be threatened by this initiative-Shuropody doesn't seem to be posing a threat. As David said, Boots couldn't make it work. Sainsburys will attract a particular niche in the market, it wont affect most of us already established unless we are not doing the job to the patients satisfaction.
I would not presume to know it all so this is purely my opinion.
Up to a year to see a pod in the NHS?! Where? We are ceratainly meeting Govt targets where I am based
Lucky you! We're certainly not! Haven't for as long as I can remember come to think of it!
But never fear, soon they will probably cut the access criteria again and we will once again be able to meet the 18 week wait. Until they cut funding again, lose staff, cut the access criteria again and so on.
By my projection in another 10 years we will treat 1.5 patients (amputee), have 23 managers and 0.000001 wte clinical staff.
Got any jobs going where you are Hannahboss? I'm no trouble as an employee honest. I've no opinions to speak of, shy from conflict and argument.
18 week wait? We have new patient waits of 2 weeks, even in specialist clinics! How do we do it I hear you all cry. Simple. We put about a rumour that there is no longer a podiatry dept in the county. No, actually we have 'special' top-secret paperwork and mystical phraseology - such as 'Episode of care (end of...)' and we have specially encoded and excruciatingly cryptic data inputing which translates every outcome as 'discharged'.
Actually I haven't a clue how we did it, but we do have a lovely boss who's sending us all to Boot Camp for the next two days.
My prices start lower than £18 but that doesn't include any assessment, absolutely nothing but the simplest of nail cuts. Good marketing by Sainsburys.
Looks like they are rolling out plans to place themselves in the market for tendering for services once NHS commissioning commences.
Your future employer may be the likes of Shuropody or a supermarket? Interesting times.
My prices start lower than £18 but that doesn't include any assessment, absolutely nothing but the simplest of nail cuts.
My understanding is that EVERY patient seen by a podiatrist on the initial visit has a primary assessment which must be documented
Has something changed from the podiatrists perspective with initial visits?
I know it can be done by FHP's/ Pod assistants which is one reason why they can "go in cheap" as the time element per visit is shorter ,but pods are bound by regulation are they not ?.
Cheers
Derek
Not only is assessment an expectation of HPC registration, so is diagnosis and formulation of an appropriate treatment plan.
I should have followed "good marketing" with a question mark.
Every patient who enters my practice goes through assessment, diagnosis and treatment planning. This comes at a cost far higher than any £18 but if I marketed myself at providing "treatment from £18"this would of course be misleading.
If someone reported me to the HPC for such inappropriate advertising, I would then receive a letter from the HPC questioning my conduct.
My prices start lower than £18 but that doesn't include any assessment, absolutely nothing but the simplest of nail cuts
In the next post you say
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Every patient who enters my practice goes through assessment, diagnosis and treatment planning.
Which is it George ??
Seems strange to me that you make such a bold statement in the first instance and when challenged you revert ??
The trouble is George as I'm sure you well know is you let the tail start to wag the dog and undercutting becomes the priority, then corners have to be cut to maintain to maintain the low fee level.
I do not believe that £18 can cover a proper service WHEREVER you are in this country unless you want to work for national minimum wage or less in the net value.
I personally do not have a problem and have an established practice so I am not worried about Sainsburys or anyone else,albeit having an insight into the workings of Sainsburys I feel they are perhaps the biggest threat of all the companies involved.
I just feel the advertising power should this take off will hurt any pod coming out into private practice ( perhaps after losing a job in the NHS )and limit their earning potential.
No bold statements anywhere. I didn't notice the challenge, bless you.
Post assessment, post diagnosis, post treatment plan I charge a lot less than £18for a nail cut that takes me approximately 5 minutes. I provide a professional service with appropriate clinical standards according to my professional body. The HPC do not set clinical standards.
If my treatment plan states "only requires a nail cut", then I charge accordingly after the patient has undergone assessment, diagnosis, treatment plan and initial treatment at a much higher fee than they will subsequently pay
Same goes for a redressing if my assessment and diagnosis states the treatment plan requires a follow up appointment to check on that interdigital corn with aseptic breakdown.
So in an hour I may assess a new patient, redress a dodgy corn, cut a couple of sets of simple toenails. This brings in a good turnover. It is how I organise the treatment of my patients post assessment, diagnosis and treatment planning. It suits my practice. It may not suit yours.
But my prices do start at less than £18 but what for??? I do not market my practice with the least price I charge nor do I market by price at all just the standards I achieve.
Conversly this is how supermarkets market. This should be the issue, not what the charges appear to be.
I don't have a problem with you at all , I think your probably a very nice chap
It's just as you have in the past been such a tinker in picking me up on the least mistake I have made in text ,I thought I would give you a taste of what it's like
I'm sure you do as you say and charge a proper fee for the initial appointment and then what you want after but that was'nt how it was in your first post but now you have clarified your position and actually agreed with me on the subject matter of fees we will let it rest there.
You have missed the point completely and utterly...
How would an HPC registrant fair if Sainsbury's promote their service via the lowest fee charged in a competitive market, misleading the service user entirely?
This is what all my posts have been about - not fees.
Doh!
Never mind. Must put myself down for a CPD course in communication skills...
You make a very good point . With the wording as it stands, Mrs Smith could come in and say "I will have one of the £18 does please! " . When you tell her it will be £30 for the first visit, she will probably say she doesnt want it then!
To be fair though, the article does not give the actual advertising format so it could be the journalists precis of the situation that is misleading. Maybe Catherine could at some point let us hear it from the horses mouth so to speak.
Incidentally George, I like your business model- I run my practise in a similar way, I frequently scale down the price for simple nail cuts and dressings- and consequently the time for these appointments-you do not lose money in the long run and patients appreciate your flexibilty.
Cornmerchant
Last edited by cornmerchant : 27th June 2009 at 12:00 AM.
Reason: missed out 'not'
ummmmmmmmmm Having joined the arena today, and this being the first forum I have looked at, I must admit to being slightly shocked.
I had expected a much more professional conversation, but there seems to be a lot of "bickering" Some interesting points have been raised, but the tone and attitude is not what I was expecting.
I had expected a much more professional conversation, but there seems to be a lot of "bickering"
CJ, this is the main reason why, until this week, I haven't posted on any of these forums in about 3months. There seems an element of unprofessional behaviour creeping in, point scoring one could say.
George you should be ashamed putting a newbie on offer like that, disgraceful behaviour for an experienced poster
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Having joined the arena today, and this being the first forum I have looked at, I must admit to being slightly shocked.
Can I offer a word of advice please?
Firstly welcome to Pod A, you have found what is the best learning portal around which covers all aspects of our profession.
The academic side is there for the taking and consumption and there is also the political side which as with any politics ,personalities and loyalties are evident in posts. You will find some full blown rows on this site some resulting in threads being closed, posters banned and enemies made .
BUT find that out for yourself CJ look at the site and learn from it but be aware there are some mixers and fixers like George who will use your innocence as a pawn in their argument (or in this case defense )of an appalling statement ie,
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My prices start lower than £18 but that doesn't include any assessment, absolutely nothing but the simplest of nail cuts
Which is actually an admission of NOT being in safe effective practice by not giving a primary assessment. Dosen't come much more unprofessional than that imho.
Just be careful you are not used as a deflection from the facts ( not an uncommon tactic by those under pressure and with no valid defense) and sit back enjoy the forums then when you have perhaps more experience of the "way of things" then come back and get involved
Podiatry at a supermarket near you
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