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I did see what you wrote. I may not have asked my question well. So, why do you feet that you've been injury free other than genetics. Is it 95% genetics, 90% genetics...? From your vast running experience what advice would you give to the person just starting out besides the obvious. (Start slowly, watch where you step, lose weight before you start, have really good feet.)
There are some feet that are going to get injured, if they try to run, no matter what advice you give them.
Eric
Who lets his kids go barefoot, because it is their choice.
Eric, I think you know it is far more complex than that. The point of the last several posts that I've written is that there are many on this forum who really don't want to learn from what I have to say. Given that, I'm not going to waste my time. I certainly have tried but it is pointless.
Re: Meb Keflezighi Heel Strikes His Way to a 2:09 Boston Marathon
Dana,
No podiatrist I know tells people they have to strike on their heels because its better for them. Are you suggesting some do?
Your anecdotal evidence is problematic. For example, I know a man who smoked for 85 years and died of old age at 100. So, what does this prove. Answer- Not much.
I'd like to hear your opinions about running, as you've run a lot. But perhaps you'll understand that I will treat it with the same caution as i would any study with sample size of 1.
What are the variables that you think influence optimal foot strike, and why?
Phil
__________________
Phil Marshman
Mackay, Queensland Australia
Re: Meb Keflezighi Heel Strikes His Way to a 2:09 Boston Marathon
Quote:
Originally Posted by phil
Dana,
No podiatrist I know tells people they have to strike on their heels because its better for them. Are you suggesting some do?
No, what gave you the idea that I'm suggesting some do?
Kevin Kirby did write in the first post of this thread: "I decided I need to show some evidence that heel striking running can be a very fast and efficient way and injury free way to run." His evidence is a photo of Meb Keflezighi with no information about his injury history. I almost burst out laughing when I saw that. Meb Keflezighi is often used as an example of an elite runner with BAD inefficient form. Maybe you are confusing me for Kevin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phil
Your anecdotal evidence is problematic. For example, I know a man who smoked for 85 years and died of old age at 100. So, what does this prove. Answer- Not much.
I would agree. In the absence of controlled studies, we are all left to our opinions. Those opinions may be based on experience which is supported by anecdotal evidence. Everyone on this forum has an opinion. Look at the evidence given in the first post of this thread, a great example of problematic wouldn't you say?
Quote:
Originally Posted by phil
I'd like to hear your opinions about running, as you've run a lot. But perhaps you'll understand that I will treat it with the same caution as i would any study with sample size of 1.
That's great Phil, too bad this is not a running forum. I have a lot I could say about running but this is not the place. Besides, it would be a pointless effort on my part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phil
What are the variables that you think influence optimal foot strike, and why?
Re: Meb Keflezighi Heel Strikes His Way to a 2:09 Boston Marathon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana Roueche
Eric, I think you know it is far more complex than that. The point of the last several posts that I've written is that there are many on this forum who really don't want to learn from what I have to say. Given that, I'm not going to waste my time. I certainly have tried but it is pointless.
Dana
Dana, I want to learn from you. Someone who has spent as many hours as you running without getting injured could know something that prevents injuries. Do you consciously do anything to prevent injuries? If you do nothing, then it must be the genetics that gave you very good feet (and good eyes to prevent stubbed toes and stepping into potholes).
Re: Meb Keflezighi Heel Strikes His Way to a 2:09 Boston Marathon
Phil and Eric, I started posting to this forum 10 or 11 months ago. Here I am 215 posts later knowing that I have totally and completely wasted my time. I started posting with the intent of having a sincere and mature discussion about running and injury by comparing what I have learned from my practical background with what those with a clinical background have learned. Since I started posting I have been repeatedly discouraged from sharing my thoughts and opinions by those who consider themselves medical professionals. In addition, I do not know if your intent is sincere.
At this point, it is best that I use my experience, energy and passion for running for the benefit of those who might appreciate the insights I have to offer.
Re: Meb Keflezighi Heel Strikes His Way to a 2:09 Boston Marathon
Abebe Bikala is somewhat of a hero of the barefoot community as he won the Rome 1960 Olympic marathon barefoot. What they don't tell you is that he went on to run faster and break a world record at the 1964 Tokyo Olympic marathon in shoes.
It turned out he also did this by heel striking:
__________________ Craig Payne
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________ Follow me on Twitter | Run Junkie God put me on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things - right now I am so far behind, I will never die.
Re: Meb Keflezighi Heel Strikes His Way to a 2:09 Boston Marathon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Payne
Abebe Bikala is somewhat of a hero of the barefoot community as he won the Rome 1960 Olympic marathon barefoot. What they don't tell you is that he went on to run faster and break a world record at the 1964 Tokyo Olympic marathon in shoes.
Re: Meb Keflezighi Heel Strikes His Way to a 2:09 Boston Marathon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Payne
Abebe Bikala is somewhat of a hero of the barefoot community as he won the Rome 1960 Olympic marathon barefoot. What they don't tell you is that he went on to run faster and break a world record at the 1964 Tokyo Olympic marathon in shoes.
It turned out he also did this by heel striking:
Great video Craig!! The audience is going to love this video when I do my debate with Irene on barefoot running.
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
Re: Meb Keflezighi Heel Strikes His Way to a 2:09 Boston Marathon
Quote:
If there is one thing I have learned on this forum is that there is a great lack of research and evidence that supports the many variables and their relationship to injury with respect to running. Given that, we are all left with our opinion.
I have been on this site for a little while now, reading posts and getting more informed and taking in what i consider to be valuable information from respected professionals on this site. I have one year left in my Podiatry degree before graduation and one of the things i very much enjoy about this site is looking at what can appear to be 'opinions' on podiatric matters and then reading a few articles on related topics and broadening my knowledge and understanding of the things discussed here.
Personally i can't thank Kevin enough for the understanding that he has provided me through his posts that have truly helped in my studies, even if i never post on here. Though some topics have more evidence than others, theories do start out as ideas (and possibly opinions, then?) and then as studies are carried out they get into the books and become what our lecturers are teaching us.
A lot of these topics provide ideas for post-grad research and are all very exciting. Thus, i do in all honesty think that perhaps Dana, the focus should not be on trying to shut out ideas or try to completely disregard the things posted on here, especially by those who have been in the field a very long time and who know more than i can even comprehend in my young under-grad mind.
Thank you again all for your thoughts on all these matters and the referring articles you provide that give us under-grads something to think about and perhaps conduct further research on in the future.
Re: Meb Keflezighi Heel Strikes His Way to a 2:09 Boston Marathon
This made me laugh out loud, posted on birthdayshoes.com:
Keflezighi will be running in the World Marathon Majors (including the 2011 ING New York City Marathon), road races, and Olympic Trials through August 2012 exclusively in SKECHERS Fitness performance footwear featuring the Company's innovative SmartShoe(TM) mid-foot strike technology for serious athletes and active enthusiasts. Keflezighi will also be consulting on the development of performance product and SKECHERS expects to coordinate the launches of exciting new competition-ready running lines with his professional racing appearances.
"SKECHERS' new performance shoes change the way I run for the better," said Keflezighi. "I've been a heel strike runner my entire life, but I am now wearing SKECHERS to maximize the efficiency of my foot strike. My shoes are my most essential piece of equipment and right now SKECHERS has the footwear I need to succeed. I'm excited to be partnering with this groundbreaking company."
Skechers is jumping on the minimalist shoe bandwagon with GoRun and has ironically signed up our favorite heel striker to sponsor a shoe designed for fore foot and mid foot striking.
Re: Meb Keflezighi Heel Strikes His Way to a 2:09 Boston Marathon
Since a lot of people who are natural heel-strikers are trying to convert over to being forefoot and midfoot strikers.....the clinic has been very busy lately with injured "wannabe" midfoot and forefoot strikers. In one of the last free screening clinics I ran at the local shoe store, the last 5 runners I saw at the clinic had all got their running injuries soon after they were talked into running more on their forefoot by a friend, coach or an article they had read on the internet.
I now add the following question to the history of every new runner I see in my clinic:
"Have you recently tried to alter your gait pattern from a heel-striking to more of a midfoot or forefoot striking pattern?"
On the positive side, it is good business for my practice.
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
Re: Meb Keflezighi Heel Strikes His Way to a 2:09 Boston Marathon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Kirby
I now add the following question to the history of every new runner I see in my clinic:
"Have you recently tried to alter your gait pattern from a heel-striking to more of a midfoot or forefoot striking pattern?"
Kevin, that one should probably go up near the top of your list. There are a few things you can count on when it comes to dealing with the general running public. There is a never ending quest for the magic pill or Holy Grail that will turn an untalented jogger into a gifted athlete. There is an incredible lack of common sense. Combining the two create a great recipe for injury.
Initially I laughed about Skechers but after thinking about it, it really bothers me. Skechers has done really well "borrowing" from other shoe companies and marketing the crap out of their products so they sell. Their GoRun shoe has not hit the market yet but from what I can tell from the photos and videos, they are again "borrowing" from at least two other running shoe companies who have invested in R&D to develop their shoes. There is no way that I would even consider buying a "knock off" running shoe to save 10% or whatever.
Since the GoRun is clearly designed as a mid foot striker running shoe and will be marketed as such, it will be interesting to see if Meb K. actually changes his form to run in those things. After watching Meb's form on the high speed videos, the GoRun would be a terrible choice of shoes to wear on his part.
Re: Meb Keflezighi Heel Strikes His Way to a 2:09 Boston Marathon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana Roueche
Kevin, that one should probably go up near the top of your list. There are a few things you can count on when it comes to dealing with the general running public. There is a never ending quest for the magic pill or Holy Grail that will turn an untalented jogger into a gifted athlete. There is an incredible lack of common sense. Combining the two create a great recipe for injury.
Initially I laughed about Skechers but after thinking about it, it really bothers me. Skechers has done really well "borrowing" from other shoe companies and marketing the crap out of their products so they sell. Their GoRun shoe has not hit the market yet but from what I can tell from the photos and videos, they are again "borrowing" from at least two other running shoe companies who have invested in R&D to develop their shoes. There is no way that I would even consider buying a "knock off" running shoe to save 10% or whatever.
Since the GoRun is clearly designed as a mid foot striker running shoe and will be marketed as such, it will be interesting to see if Meb K. actually changes his form to run in those things. After watching Meb's form on the high speed videos, the GoRun would be a terrible choice of shoes to wear on his part.
Meb isn't the only heel striking elite but certainly he is one of the more prominent ones. Supposedly Alberto Salazar is now coaching many of his runners to strike more on their midfoot which may or may not be a good thing for every elite runner.
My thoughts are that the barefoot and minimalist runners seem to spend way too much time worrying about how their foot strikes the ground and worry too little about all the other numerous factors which affect performance and injury rates. Every time I tried to change my stride during my competition years I promptly got injured so I stuck with what worked for me. I advise my runner patients to do the same...experiment with different running styles until you find the one that is most comfortable and causes the fewest injuries. In other words, I advise them to not worry how your foot strikes the ground because there is no one best way to footstrike (i.e. heel, midfoot or forefoot) for a given shoe and given running velocity....it's all very individual.
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
Re: Meb Keflezighi Heel Strikes His Way to a 2:09 Boston Marathon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Payne
Abebe Bikala is somewhat of a hero of the barefoot community as he won the Rome 1960 Olympic marathon barefoot. What they don't tell you is that he went on to run faster and break a world record at the 1964 Tokyo Olympic marathon in shoes.
It turned out he also did this by heel striking:
Wonder if he started out the '64 race on his heels? From personal experience, my stride changes throughout a race. I start off as a mid-foot striker but end heel striking...even if pace is constant. This in distances between 20 and 40 miles. Can only guess why the transition occurs. Lower leg fatigue seems to be a factor.
Re: Meb Keflezighi Heel Strikes His Way to a 2:09 Boston Marathon
Press Release: Meb Keflezighi Earns Spot on 2012 U.S. London Team with First Place Finish Wearing Skechers GOrun at Houston Trials
Quote:
SKECHERS USA, Inc. announced that elite runner and 2004 silver medalist Meb Keflezighi will be joining the U.S. Team in London after finishing first and setting a new personal record of 2:09:08 at the 2012 Houston Trials today. Wearing Skechers GOrun racing footwear, Meb surpassed his 2011 New York Marathon time of 2:09:13.
“I am incredibly excited and proud to be representing the United States in London next summer,” began Keflezighi. “And to come in first while setting a new PR at the Trials is icing on the cake. New York was only 69 days ago and in that short time I did what I could to maintain focus on today’s race while training at high altitudes in my Skechers GOrun racing shoes. With two PRs in just over three months it’s clear that SKECHERS’ mid-foot strike technology has made a positive impact on my stride. I’m running more efficiently than I have my entire life.”
Skechers GOrun is an innovative new minimalistic lightweight running line featuring revolutionary mid-foot strike technology and GOimpulse sensors for enhanced sensory feedback. Meb has provided SKECHERS with expert insight by testing and consulting on the design of Skechers GOrun as well as other high-performance product currently in development. And he will be wearing exclusive Skechers GOrun racing shoes specially designed for the premiere event when he competes for gold in London on August 12, 2012.
“We congratulate Meb on his fantastic performance in Houston today and look forward to being there with him on the global stage in London next summer. When a world-class athlete like Meb continues to improve his race wearing SKECHERS performance footwear, it solidifies our position as an emerging force in the running world,” said SKECHERS president Michael Greenberg. “Meb is a great inspiration and he illustrates to runners of all levels that it’s possible to achieve great success by training and competing in our new minimalistic, extremely flexible, responsive, lightweight footwear.”
Re: Meb Keflezighi Heel Strikes His Way to a 2:09 Boston Marathon
Cue those that subscribe to the philosophy that midfoot striking is the panacea to rush to the shops?
In any case, let's hope Sketchers get their advertising for this shoe squared off a little better than it was for the Resistance Runner. Note to marketing: pick an appropriate picture this time...
Re: Meb Keflezighi Heel Strikes His Way to a 2:09 Boston Marathon
Well done to Meb! and certainly a marketing coup to Skechers. I expect them to start being taken a lot more seriously now with their running shoes...
I would like to see some video of the race, but this was him 2 weeks ago during a 16 mile tempo run- http://www.runnerspace.com/eprofile....video_id=56829
The most well known heavy heel striker now... well ... still heel strikes!
Imagine how good he could be if he was barefoot!
__________________
Craig Tanner
Podiatrist ASPETAR-
Qatar Orthopaedic and Sports Medicine Hospital
Doha
QATAR http://www.aspetar.com/
Re: Meb Keflezighi Heel Strikes His Way to a 2:09 Boston Marathon
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