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I'm still on my layover here in Dulles Airport in Washington DC on my way to the 2012 Biomechanics Summer School in Manchester in a few days. As a result, I'm having a great time dreaming about and all those great track and field athletes from the UK that I have watched and admired over the last five decades especially considering the upcoming 2012 London Olympics.
I'm adding a few of these photos to my lecture on Medial Tibial Stress Syndrome just to start getting you all excited about the World's Greatest Track and Field Meet which will be held in just over a month in London. Can anyone name the athletes and which Olympics that each of these UK athletes won gold medals in track and field?
See you in Manchester!!
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
Daley Thompson - decathlon
Seb Coe - 1500m
Both got golds at the 80 and 84 olympics!
__________________ Craig Payne
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________ Follow me on Twitter | Run Junkie God put me on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things - right now I am so far behind, I will never die.
Daley Thompson - decathlon
Seb Coe - 1500m
Both got golds at the 80 and 84 olympics!
That's cheating Admin!
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
I remember seeing a video of Daley Thompson running toward the camera during either the long jump or tripple jump. If anything looked like "hyperpronation" what he was doing on his personal record jump was hyperpronation. It helped me get away from the pronation bad, supination good mentality.
here is one for you. What did the philosopher Plato win double gold in at the Olympics?
__________________ Craig Payne
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________ Follow me on Twitter | Run Junkie God put me on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things - right now I am so far behind, I will never die.
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
__________________ Craig Payne
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________ Follow me on Twitter | Run Junkie God put me on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things - right now I am so far behind, I will never die.
Glad to see you guys are retaining your youthful naivety.
Personally I get more enjoyment out of watching kids runniing down the road. At least at that level you can be pretty sure that they are drug free.
By the time they get to olympics what percentage are squeaky clean?
In fact the percentage is unimportant. Because I don't know whether the performer is clean my mind has labelled all the competitiors as potential cheats.
The outcome is that have I lost interest in watching high level human adverts for advanced science or drug companies strut their stuff.
Shame really as I used to love athletics.
I would think that by the next olympics we will be seeing some competitive morbid obesity.
You probably haven't noticed but I'm feeling a little cynical today.
Glad to see you guys are retaining your youthful naivety.
Personally I get more enjoyment out of watching kids runniing down the road. At least at that level you can be pretty sure that they are drug free.
By the time they get to olympics what percentage are squeaky clean?
In fact the percentage is unimportant. Because I don't know whether the performer is clean my mind has labelled all the competitiors as potential cheats.
The outcome is that have I lost interest in watching high level human adverts for advanced science or drug companies strut their stuff.
Shame really as I used to love athletics.
I would think that by the next olympics we will be seeing some competitive morbid obesity.
You probably haven't noticed but I'm feeling a little cynical today.
Bill
Bill:
Not a little cynical, but very cynical if you ask me. I think you need to go out to your local high school or college and see the hard work that many of these young athletes put out on a daily basis...and without the drugs you seem to think they all use.
Regardless of your unusual view of things, the Olympics is still the ultimate showcase for the best athletes of the world. I love watching the Olympics because I was once a young athlete and had dreams of making it to the Olympics even though, realistically, I simply didn't have the skills to even make it to the Olympic trials.
However, today, being around and treating athletes, both recreational and professional, in my office on a daily basis, I believe I have a very good appreciation of what most of them are like and they are not at all the people you portray. There are, of course, cheaters in every sport.....oh yeah.....soccer (football) players never feign injury in the front of 30,000 spectators in order to get a free kick or penalty kick.
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
I would think that by the next olympics we will be seeing some competitive morbid obesity.
You probably haven't noticed but I'm feeling a little cynical today.
Funny you should mention that as I am currently part of an elite squad training for 2016 in said event. The training is tough but I figure it is worth it
__________________
I see you girls checkin' out my trunks
I see you girls checkin' out the front of my trunks
I see you girls lookin' at my junk, then checkin' out my rump, then back to my sugarlumps
I think you need to go out to your local high school or college and see the hard work that many of these young athletes put out on a daily basis...and without the drugs you seem to think they all use.
I group the local high school and college athletes with 'kids running down the road' so I would expect them still to be drug free.
Regardless of your unusual view of things,
Is it an unusual view?
the Olympics is still the ultimate showcase for the best athletes of the world.
It's a showcase for many things, one of which is the 'best athletes of the world' but if I had to make a hierarchy of what is being showcased I am not sure that 'best athletes in the world' would be too near the top of the list - although it has a good marketing ring to it.
I love watching the Olympics because I was once a young athlete and had dreams of making it to the Olympics even though, realistically, I simply didn't have the skills to even make it to the Olympic trials.
You and a few million others.
However, today, being around and treating athletes, both recreational and professional, in my office on a daily basis, I believe I have a very good appreciation of what most of them are like and they are not at all the people you portray.
I think my original response was to olympic athletics but the same principal applies. As you move through the ranks from recreational athlete to professsional to olympian the pressure to take drugs increases and an increasing percentage take the bait.
Those who are taking drugs don't broadcast it and they don't usually develop a physical or psychological hump. They were 'nice' dedicated athletes before they took drugs and they remain 'nice' dedicated athletes who rationalise their use of drugs as being the same as using orthoses or naturally being endowed with ten percent more fast twitch fibes or being three inches taller, etc, than the opposition.
I wouldn't expect them to be shooting up in front of you in your office or at the side of the running track any more than I would expect them to be discussing the pros and cons of their habit.
Actually the no hump bit isn't totally accurate. When a sprinter who has been training hard and running at a high level for years comes out for a new season looking like the hulk eyebrows should be raised. That would include sprinters in all types of sport.
There are, of course, cheaters in every sport.....oh yeah.....soccer (football) players never feign injury in the front of 30,000 spectators in order to get a free kick or penalty kick.
Now that's almost another debate. Is winning merely being first past the post? Does the intimacy of television help to make cheating more or less acceptable?
What effect does it have upon the ethics and morals of a society? Bla bla bla?
Anyway, enjoy. We are all deluded one way or another and who am I to criticise your fanatastical world view. I have to go and feed the unicorns.
Enjoy your time in England.
Bill
Last edited by wdd : 21st June 2012 at 12:09 AM.
Reason: my responses weren't standing out from the quotes
Sure there has & will be drugs in sport... but the majority of athletes work damn hard without the aid of drugs to get where they have & will get to. Harder than the average person can fathom. I know on good authority that I have raced against guys on EPO & whilst this bugs me big time, I still love the sport.
I grew up watching Sebastian Coe, even have a signed photo of him framed on my wall.
The Coe's certainly took the scientific approach to running. Coach & father, Peter had a deep interest in physiology/biomechanics (got Peter's & David Martin's book - Training Distance Runners). Probably helped towards Coe’s great form.
Here is a fascinating 6 part series on the career of Seb Coe... Born To Run (not to be confused with that other Born To Run tale)...
Why do people cheat in sport? They cheat to increase their chances of winning, which in the simplest analysis means being first past the post.
Physiologically and psychologically it's not a level playing field. Some are bigger, faster, smarter, more dedicated, etc than others.
Why not attempt to compensate for human differences?
In general terms men don't compete against women. Some sports already have compensated for aspects of it. Boxing attempts to level the playing field by weight divisions as does judo and weight lifting.
The paraolymics classification system is more complex and is based not just on the nature of physical or mental challenge but also upon the degree of limitation.
So the precedent has been created in other sports. Why not try to create a classification system to level the playing field for all athletes? Even here, apart from the paraathletics, there is a precendent. Above thirty five years of age veterans athletics is divided into five year age bands.
Some of the factors that could be taken into account in the classification system would be height, weight, body mass index, fitness level, percentage of fast twitch muscle, red blood cell concentration and saturation levels. I am sure you will be able to augment this list?
After all the factors have been identified all that's needed is a good classification system and I get the feeling that I have come to the right forum if I'm looking for someone to design a new classification system. Any volunteers or nominations?
Of course the down side is that the greater the number of factor included in the classification system the smaller the number of athletes in each category and the longer the athletics meeting would last. It is even envisageable that, with sufficient categories, rather than simply having the Olympic games every four year, they would last for four years. That might be seen as a pro by some and a con by others. Maybe the fairest way would be to make the number of categories equal to the earths polulation? Possibly that's the best way to do it. Every four years in each country they could have award ceremonies where every member of the population could go along and receive an olympic gold medal.
Ok wdd/Bill, we've heard your whinge now. Why don't you do yourself a favour & not watch the Olympics & not contribute to what is clearly an Olympic/athletic orientated thread if the whole thing bothers you so much (just not worth killing your DNA over this). I'm sure Kevin started this thread so members can contribute their Olympic highlights - at least that's how I perceive it going by the thread title (i.e. "Great Olympic Moments in UK Track and Field"). Some people are excited that the Olympics are coming up soon. I'm looking forward to it & despite all the negativity that's present in the world (which also includes drugs in sport), I like to dwell on the positives because there are people out there who do try to do the right thing & strive to be the best they can be... & we shouldn't allow a minority to spoil it for the rest of us... including what seems to be a whinging pom (going by the flag - yet located in France) on what should be an inspirational thread.
I'm sure the French get excited about the Tour de France - it is also coming up soon... so I take it you won't be watching that either (i.e. due to its history of drugs). You've stated your reasons... & would appear those who feel otherwise are seen in the following light...
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdd
We are all deluded one way or another and who am I to criticise your fanatastical world view. I have to go and feed the unicorns.
To epitomize the above issues (winners/losers, controversy, inspiration... & ergogenic aids) we have the men's 5000m at the 1972 Munich Olympics. One of the most exciting races I've ever seen mainly because of the guts of an American runner by the name of Steve Prefontaine. I won't spoil the finish but it does involve a British runner (Ian Stewart) as well as a runner who was rumoured/admitted to blood doping (i.e. injecting blood back into himself) during his career. It is sometimes the ones who don’t win that can make an event just a memorable as the ones who do...
Steve Prefontaine was my hero at that time and to see him run that race again and to know that he died less than 3 years later nearly at the peak of his career is truly sad. What a tragedy to have such a gifted runner who was truly inspirational to many young athletes like myself have their life cut so short. His death and John Lennon's death at such young ages still pains me to this day.
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
Steve Prefontaine was my hero at that time and to see him run that race again and to know that he died less than 3 years later nearly at the peak of his career is truly sad. What a tragedy to have such a gifted runner who was truly inspirational to many young athletes like myself have their life cut so short. His death and John Lennon's death at such young ages still pains me to this day.
My heroes were always Sergey Bubka and Dick Fosbrey.
Sergey had a bit of a nightmare with the Olympics, wasn't from the UK, but was perhaps the greatest athlete of all time. How many world records? (He was astute here). How many world titles?
As he said: "I love the pole vault because it is a professor's sport. One must not only run and jump, but one must think. Which pole to use, which height to jump, which strategy to use. I love it because the results are immediate and the strongest is the winner. Everyone knows it. In everyday life that is difficult to prove."-Sergey Bubka
Meanwhile, back 1968 the biomechanists had worked out that "the best way" for a high jumper to elevate his centre of mass over the bar was to use the "straddle" technique; Fosbrey realised you didn't need to- genius.
Every man and his dog can run, sure some are faster, some have greater endurance, some do it with shoes on, some barefoot, some do it on roads, some do it on "trails"; Jeez I can still run with no cruciate ligaments in my right knee if the mood takes me. But can any of y'all do this? :
(You'll note I've never really been one for runners who go round, and round, and round......... I do like those who put ridiculous yardage over their nearest competitors, over relatively short distances and in so doing, make their rivals look very mediocre).
I don't just treat runners in my sports injury clinic. Thus, I find it important to understand the biomechanics of many sports, not just distance running, in order to best help my patients.
My heroes were always Sergey Bubka and Dick Fosbrey.
I distinctly remember seeing, for the first time, Dick Fosbury do his "flop" in the 1968 Mexico Olympics which was a total departure from the previous high jump techniques. Totally unexpected, unconventional and very cool that Fosbury Flop.
However, Simon, you must have been very young at the time to remember this?
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
Greatest olympic athelete i have read about is probably Zatopek. What a guy.
Emil Zatopek, the "Czech Locomomotive" pulled off one of the toughest triple gold medal performances of all time in the 1952 Helsinki Olympics....the 5,000 m, 10,000 m and, at the last minute, the marathon. Zatopek was one of history's most gutsy distance runners, but is probably one of the most kinematically unusual elite distance runners of all time also. In addition, Zatopek trained by running in heavy work boots (see below). So much for the idea that "minimalist shoes" are the best shoes to train in....maybe heavier and thicker heeled shoes are better for training? Sure didn't seem to hurt Zatopek 60 years ago on his way to three Olympic Gold Medals!
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
However, Simon, you must have been very young at the time to remember this?
Wasn't even born in '68, but as a competitive high-jumper through the 80's, I was more than aware of the history of this sport. I had a picture of Fosbrey on my wall.
In around 1983 I was selected to go to a specialist training camp where they were trying to tell us we needed to use the "straddle", and even the "Western-roll", even though I had been using the "flop" technique for a couple of years by then. Suffice to say, I got little useful information from it other than a history lesson.
The first Olympics I remember watching was Montreal 1976 and the great Ed Moses.
Wasn't even born in '68, but as a competitive high-jumper through the 80's, I was more than aware of the history of this sport. I had a picture of Fosbrey on my wall.
In around 1983 I was selected to go to a specialist training camp where they were trying to tell us we needed to use the "straddle", and even the "Western-roll", even though I had been using the "flop" technique for a couple of years by then. Suffice to say, I got little useful information from it other than a history lesson.
The first Olympics I remember watching was Montreal 1976 and the great Ed Moses.
I was 11 years old when I first saw Dick Fosbury do his "flop" in the Olympic Trials and Olympics on television. One of the biggest issues with the "Fosbury Flop" technique at the junior high school level in Sacramento at the time (1969-1972) is that the young athletes, like myself, were expected to land on wood chips at ground level after a high jump. Our school couldn't afford, or didn't know about, the latest piece of track and field equipment....heavily cushioned raised landing mats that would prevent head/neck injury after attempting Fosbury's flop technique.
So even though all of us had seen Fosbury win the Olympics with his flop in 1968 and all of us doing track from 1969-1972 in junior high school were talking about it, none of us really could do much in the way of a true flop with wood chips at ground level since we would have been basically landing on our heads after the jump. By high school (1972-1975), we finally had the raised, cushioned landing mats so nearly everyone was doing the Fosbury Flop by 1972-75 in my high school days here in Sacramento.
In addition, I soon found that jumping and sprinting were not my events anyway in junior high school since I was being easily beaten by a few others in my class, which I didn't like too much. However, few if any could beat me in long distance running so, by the time high school started in 1972, I pretty much gave up all my other sports to concentrate in distance running, which I seemed to have a natural talent for. In retrospect, I expect that I have quite a few slow twitch muscle fibers and not very many fast twitch fibers from my performances in various track and field events in my youth. Children and youth tend to gravitate toward the sports they do well in and get positive reinforce in from their peers and coaches...this was certainly the case for me.
__________________
Sincerely,
Kevin
**************************************************
Kevin A. Kirby, DPM
Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Applied Biomechanics
California School of Podiatric Medicine at Samuel Merritt College
I was 11 years old when I first saw Dick Fosbury do his "flop" in the Olympic Trials and Olympics on television. One of the biggest issues with the "Fosbury Flop" technique at the junior high school level in Sacramento at the time (1969-1972) is that the young athletes, like myself, were expected to land on wood chips at ground level after a high jump. Our school couldn't afford, or didn't know about, the latest piece of track and field equipment....heavily cushioned raised landing mats that would prevent head/neck injury after attempting Fosbury's flop technique.
So even though all of us had seen Fosbury win the Olympics with his flop in 1968 and all of us doing track from 1969-1972 in junior high school were talking about it, none of us really could do much in the way of a true flop with wood chips at ground level since we would have been basically landing on our heads after the jump. By high school (1972-1975), we finally had the raised, cushioned landing mats so nearly everyone was doing the Fosbury Flop by 1972-75 in my high school days here in Sacramento.
Even with foam "crash-mats" the high jump isn't without risk (I bent many a triangular section aluminium bar with my spine and felt the pain). But, when I was around 15 I was competing in an indoor competition where the mats had been set up on a concrete floored gymnasium. Myself and my training partner noticed that as the bar was going higher, one of the other competitors was landing further and further across the pad and getting dangerously close to the edge of the mats. We went and spoke to the guys running the competition and suggested they move the mats across. We were told to go away by the "adults" in no uncertain terms. The next jump, the kid missed the mats completely, landed on his back and neck on a concrete floor. Never forgotten the scream. True story. It was around this time I realised that adults don't always "know best".
[quote=BEN-HUR;267268]Why don't you do yourself a favour & not watch the Olympics & not contribute to what is clearly an Olympic/athletic orientated thread if the whole thing bothers you so much (just not worth killing your DNA over this).
Opps! Sorry. I thought I was on Podiatry Forum? You know, someone starts a thread and says' black' and someone else responds 'white' and then the whole world piles in with shades of grey.
I'm sure Kevin started this thread so members can contribute their Olympic highlights - at least that's how I perceive it going by the thread title (i.e. "Great Olympic Moments in UK Track and Field"). Some people are excited that the Olympics are coming up soon. I'm looking forward to it & despite all the negativity that's present in the world (which also includes drugs in sport), I like to dwell on the positives because there are people out there who do try to do the right thing & strive to be the best they can be... & we shouldn't allow a minority to spoil it for the rest of us... including what seems to be a whinging pom (going by the flag - yet located in France) on what should be an inspirational thread.
Maybe you need to develop a little 'Yes man' icon to be added at the head of specific threads, which lets everyone know that if they don't agree they should 'keep out'.
I'm sure the French get excited about the Tour de France - it is also coming up soon... so I take it you won't be watching that either (i.e. due to its history of drugs).
Abolutely right.
You've stated your reasons... & would appear those who feel otherwise are seen in the following light...
I didn't single out any group and included myself but nostalgia, which is central to this thread, is founded on delusion. No?
Essentially you and I are coming from the same place. The difference is that I am taking my anger, frustration, disappointment out on the sport, in the only way I can, ie voting with my feet, while you are taking your feelings out on me, while apparently continuing to run with known cheats and recognising that the known cheats are the tip of the iceberg, ie you are powerless against 'it'. That's the source of your anger and that's the source of my anger, ie that the 'purity' of running, athletics, sport should be besmirched by the humanness of humanbeings but to expect otherwise is surely delusional?
Great Olympic Moments in UK Track and Field
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