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As the title really.

Is it possible to have a viable private practice in the UK?

I cotend that it is. I have been in constant PP since I qualified, apart from a brief spell as a full-time NHS drone in the early 90's. That paid for one degree and gave me time off for another so can't complain about that.

My current practice is viable, if small. I live in a very remote part of Wales with a low population (12 sheep to every person). I only moved here two years ago.

How do I do that?

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Old guys rule!

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David good question 'how do you do that.

Just a quick search Powys has a population of 133,000 people and Yellow pages shows 18 pod practices.

Are you Orthopod Clinic Ltd Buith Wells?

Seems you break all of your advice.

A few guesses, you still have your BUPA work, you have a slimming company, you released capital when you relocated to Wales.

Just how small is your practice ie, clients per week, cost for basic chiropody, (or do you not do that), home visits etc.

My practice was large enough, it has shrunk with the recession, it is viable, if I was young and trying to support a family on my earnings we would be on income support.

As others have pointed out general practice is tough, niche markets are possible but I have seen many 'great bios' revert to corn cutting.

I do not know the answer I do know that I am the worst salesperson I know, guess I just do not have that gene.

So please tell us how do you do it?

Bob

Overheads of running a business are crippling, so much time spent marketing and putting protocols in place. It’s very tough out there I would say I put as much time into practice management as I do doing the job. If I spread that out I would say I’m working near on a hundred hours per week, so money paid for time invested - not good.

But I am proud of what I have achieved and don't want to give that up so I will keep plodding away.

Jude

Bob,

We have 2000 population and one chiropodist where I live.

I looked at opening a small practice in Brecon (10,000 pop in and around), but two chiropodists already there so that was a no-go).

I adapted my work to fit the circumstances.
I have practicing rights at four private hospitals, but only pay for when I'm actually there.
They hold my diaries and make appointments.
I do mostly biomech, but that has been devalued (I won't mention the group responsible) and orthopods no longer refer work in, in my area at any rate.
The evidence I have (from medico-legal sources) is that this is not confined to the Midlands, and some orthopods believe that patients should pay no more than £150 for a pair of orthotics.

I charge a consultation fee of £125.00. I don't do chiropody. I do see some patients who I refer on for chiropody though.

I have found some work which I can do from home which allows me freedom through the day if I choose. I'm an accredited Expert Witness (Podiatry) with APIL (Association of Personal Injury Lawyers). Training is ongoing, but I did the important stuff last year.
Some clients I have to see, some I just get sent the paperwork.
My practice is growing nicely.

In short, I adapted to the prevailing conditions.

You mentioned Scholls as not succeeding on the other thread. Good example, but they only stopped succeeding because they did not change their business plan to match the market. In the 50's and 60's Scholls were highly successful. In Sunderland there were two Scholl "shops" in one street - both very, very busy. I know because my father was manager of one.

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Old guys rule!

David you have obviously done well, your strategy of diversification is to be applauded.

I have had multiple careers none of which have failed but when circumstances became adverse I moved.

I now like you have many fingers in many pies, and would consider myself ‘successful’.

However if I was newly out of Pod school with student debts, no capital or business acumen could I assemble a good enough business plan to convince a bank to back me?

So let me change the question from ‘is successful private practice in the UK possible’ to ‘can private practice achieve a higher than average graduate starting salary (£26k) (www.studentbeans.com) then try www.totaljobs.com for 5 years on.

So it seems to me get it right and you can probably beat the odds, but you have to be a good businessperson.

Unfortunately in the present climate I would suggest you work very hard, if you are lucky, for a very uncertain reward.

Ps I will have a very pleasant practice for sale in the near future.

Bob

the short answer is no.
With a caveat - if one is prepared to work at development, using the pod degree as a first degree stepping-stone it is perfectly possible within 10 years to be making much more than the average graduate.

Graduates from Oxford, Cambridge, Durham and Newcastle and other high calibre Uni's will have no difficulty in finding jobs. Graduates from lesser Universities do often tend to struggle to find work.

Back to Pod - there are. as you know, many areas to develop after the first degree.
With a 2.1 or above you can gain entry onto a Medical or Law Course, or do a higher degree in a better Uni.
With a 2.2 it is still possible to access a higher degree. An MSc in Surgery would be the obvious choice.

A C.Ped course is also worth considering.

Expert Witness work is for the very old.

Professional quals do not have to stop after the first degree.

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Old guys rule!

David

You are now confusing me.

Are we now talking about what opportunities a pod degree opens up rather than making a living practicing Podiatry?

Yes. We agree the marketplace has changed. We have to change with it.
A private practice needs to be able to deliver whatever is needed, not necessarily in high volume, which used to be the case, but certainly in terms of high quality care.

So the emphasis may need to shift from, say, corn-cutting to biomech or more surgery, or bone surgery. It's really whatever fits the situation. The opportunities the pod degree opens up are fall-back positions. We didn't have this in the old days with the diploma. Then it was sink or swim.
It really isn't like that now.

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Old guys rule!

I have been in private practice for over 17 years and this year is my worst ever, Age Concern has taken over a quarter of my home visiting older persons, my residential homes dwindled from 15 to 2 as I have been undercut and won't do discounts for £10 per patient as others are doing its crazy!

I have an MSc in Podiatry, apply for NHS and private jobs (part time) with no luck....
But I love what I do and won't and cannot give up as I have invested so much time and money in my training, what else can I do?
The recession here in Wales is crippling me and I get no support from anyone.
How do others survive on tiny incomes?

Hello again Tracy,
I have only just seen this posting, so apologies for that.

When I read your posting on the other "Age Concern" thread I thought that you were a new graduate who was having a hard time getting a foothold in the market, not an established practitioner.

You say in this post that
From what you have said Age Concern (or AgeUK as it is now)are providing a cheap/free nail-cutting service - but this is not Chiropody/Podiatry. So why are they "taking over" your patients? Surely your service wasn't just purely nail-cutting? How do these patients now obtain treatment for their podiatry needs?

Perhaps you can expand on what you have said, as I don't fully understand what the problem is.

regards

Catfoot

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"Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this."

On another thread George Brandy suggests that SCP Branches have the answer to building up a successful practice, thus making this thread redundant.

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Old guys rule!

With regards to podiatry needs, my patients the older ones don't give a hoot about my training they just want their nails and corns dealt with. All the educational advice I give or other therapeutics are not heeded or required purely on a cost level. I cannot change the majority of my business base as after all that has been making my living for nearly 20 years. I am trying to branch out in another area to change the age range and structure of footcare range.

Just wonder wrong how others are riding the downturn?

I don't think there is any easy answer to the, at times, struggle of business. I do think it is worth looking at what additional podiatry skills you could acquire for PP that gives you that distinctive edge or provides for a patient care which can also earn you money. Appropriate Up-skilling is probably more a necessity in todays market than a luxury, especially if you are thinking long terms presence in the market.

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Ian Linane

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Podia-Clinic
Manor Farm House
Southwick
England
www.podia-clinic.com

Soft Tissue and Joint mobilisation Courses.
Details available via PM

excellent question.
podiatry is i believe taking a real battering at the moment.as a buisiness start up the market is flooded with graduates who cannot find nhs work plus all the other fhp type competition. [plus the recesssion. i personally have done extremly well out of podiatry but even now things are changing contracts are more difficult to renew things are uncertain. the last 17 years have been amazing ime not sure the next 17 will be as good.

most private practices dont return high incomes yes i know some do but these are the minority . at branch meetings people say oh im part time i dont do it for the money bloody hell i do. so there are lots of self employed pods eanring bugger all really.
then theres the nhs . if you are the best of the best top gun with an msc you are a band 7 start on 30 grand finish on 40 takes 9 years so in reallity you have spent half your life as a band 6 earning on average 29 grand a year . it does not make pleasant reading unless you think 40 grand is good renumeration for someone at the top of their game.

is it no wonder pod schools are full of mature students who have already failed in their previous lives. who would give up a successful career for aband 5 job if you are lucky earning 25 grand or the oportunity to be self employed eanring rubbish money.

its hard to see it coming i wish i had a crystal ball.

before all you rich pods me included tell them there are lots of us i dont believe there are an most pods are struggling to make ends meet. we are doing well for the moment what will tommorrow bring perhaps tracys tale i hope not

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drive it like you stole it

David H,
When you said


You were funny


regards

Catfoot

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"Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this."

I read this and I feel depressed now.

And I am too old and too ugly to marry money!!

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Jo Ashton

Seriously though, the profession does itself no favours with part-time private practitioners tucked at the back of chemist shops, beauty salons and hairdressers. No wonder people do not value us full-timers as professionals who need to charge enough to cover rent, holidays, CPD and sickness and etc etc etc! It has been my goal all along to be good enough at my job to justify my fee, which is quite a bit higher than some in my area.

The recession was just one in a string of potentially terminal problems I survived. Somehow I am still here. But it is true.. I show no signs of becoming rich or even comfortable! As others have pointed out, the work rewarding, and I would be selling my soul if I worked for money alone.. Does that sound defeatist?

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Jo Ashton

It does to me Jo - sorry.

If you're happy to be in your current position, fine. Enjoy what you have.
The part-timers aren't the problem BTW. The problem is a saturated market for ordinary chiropody.

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Old guys rule!

I'm also interested in this issue. I'm currently a teacher who's struggling to find full-time work and barely staying afloat financially by working part-time as a supply teacher. I want to change careers to something with more opportunities and more money, and the careers adviser at the university has led me to believe that if I retrain it should be possible to make a decent income (in the £30-50k bracket) as a self-employed podiatrist.

Is this bad advice? Would it be a bad decision to embark upon a podiatry degree with the aim of starting a new (better paid) career? Or are there decent prospects for a new podiatry graduate to become self employed? I'm interested in feedback from current practitioners about how much money I could earn and whether it's worth retraining.

Hi Mona-J,
Check the various threads on here for more info.
I think the careers advisor needs to retrain.

If you go into the ordinary chiropody marketplace, which is what most people do on qualifying you will find very crowded. The prospects are not good.

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Old guys rule!

Really? The institution in question advertises that 100% of graduates from the podiatry course are in paid employment within 12 months of graduating, and that private practice salaries can approach £40k if you work more or less full time. So podiatry seemed like a good option, especially because you don't have to pay fees (I had a student loan for my first degree and can't get another one).

If the job prospects are truly as poor as you say, then I'll have to carefully consider other career options instead, which is a shame as I thought that podiatry would be really interesting and I could make a difference to people's quality of life.

What is the Institution? Is a Uni really telling people this?

In the old days this was probably the case, but no longer.

Look - do your own analysis.
Look at how many patients you think you will see straight after qualifying.
Look at the cost of renting a surgery (or even a room), fitting it out, cost of equipment - at least a patients chair, an operators chair, a unit, a drill, an autoclave, and instrument sets. Then add in your mandatory Continuing Professional Development, personal indemnity insurance, and other insurances you may need (like if you are off sick). Finally membership of the HCPC - you don't have any choice in this, will cost you £140 smackers every two years.

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Old guys rule!

I told the careers adviser I wanted to switch careers to something with a high employment rate and low fees (because I can't get another student loan), preferably something which utilises my scientific and technical background and has prospects for self employment. She suggested podiatry because the fees are paid by the NHS and employment prospects are excellent, and also there are opportunities for further professional training and career progression.

Here are two links to courses I'm considering. Both of them clearly state that employment prospects are excellent, with 100% of graduates in employment within 6-12 months. The latter link suggests that salaries can eventually reach £97,000. It seems extremely unfair if these institutions are lying to prospective students in order to get bums on seats.

http://www.hud.ac.uk/courses/2012-13...atry-bsc-hons/

http://www.brighton.ac.uk/sohp/prosp...hypodiatry.php

WOW! Challenge the careers advisor and the university to produce figures!

You can turn over 40K, but there is a big difference between that and "earning" 40K. (Have you calculated how many patients you have to see just to turn over 40k?? They don't come out of the woodwork!) I don't agree that the prospects are "poor", its just that in private practice there are, as has been mentioned, a whole bunch of up-front costs (which do not apply if you go and work in an established pratice on a fee-share basis), as well as significant on-going ones..

Depending on your business structure, you don't make a penny till these costs are covered. If you set up from scratch, allow at least a year before you make any money whatsoever, let alone enough to live on.

Unless things have changed (and I don't think they have) you tend not to be that well trained in business as an undergrad, so you will quickly find out if you have an aptitude for it, as well as an aptitude for working as a therapist. As has been implied throughout this thread, the qualities that make good therapists don't necessarily make good business owners.

Personally, I got hit with a series of disasters - which hopefully a relocation will sort out - but relocating in itself is a huge financial set back. You do have to assume you will meet with some disasters, and be prepared to stick with it - unless you are extremely lucky or extremely thorough in your planning. Hence many businesses don't survive the first year.

So frankly, I don't think you have been advised well.

However, should you decide to go ahead anyway; well that would suggest to me that you might have what it takes to make a go of it !!

Good luck with your decisions.

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Jo Ashton

And tell us who the Institution is!

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Old guys rule!

I already provided links to two university websites which claim a 100% employment rate within 6-12 months. Here they are again:

http://www.hud.ac.uk/courses/2012-13...atry-bsc-hons/

http://www.brighton.ac.uk/sohp/prosp...hypodiatry.php

Fishpod

Please put some punctuation and grammar in your writing, I don't know if you are complaining or boasting or what point you are trying to make!?

Dave

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Descartes seems to consider here that beliefs formed by pure reasoning are less doubtful than those formed through perception.

You did, and I missed it.

I'll follow up on these. If they are doing as you suggest it is not only unfair but misrepresentation (at best) and fraudulent (at worst). Thanks for flagging up.

Update.
Huddersfield say in their prospectus that 93% of their graduates found work within 6 months of qualifying - in 2009.
Which could be true. They don't give figures for 2010 or 2011,

Brighton make no claims for employment in their prospectus as far as I can see.

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Old guys rule!

I graduated from Brighton some years ago, and they have never made any attempt to contact me about my employment status...I could be rolling in money, or languishing on the dole for all they know.

I do recall that most of us got something of a shock upon graduating. The university had never once mentioned the "issue" of competing with FHPs as a private practitioner. A large percentage of us felt somewhat misled, and certainly unprepared for the reality of the job.

reply to dave smith. not boasting just saying things are difficult at the moment and even for those of us who are doing ok its constantly changing. and as for you mona if you had a copy of our latest podiatry now magazine not a single nhs job in the jobs section. they have been blowing smoke up your ass because they want to keep thier low paid teaching jobs cos no students no job .they will tell u anything your chance of earning 40 grand from birmingham to scotland bugger all 50 grand you are on drugs. i could not comment on down south as the economy is different down there as well as living costs.

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drive it like you stole it