Why Is It That UK Threads Get Out Of Hand?

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Why is it that UK. Threads get out of Hand?

Is it,

1. Those who feel locked out, are locked out?


2. The imbalance of numeral power in the various Societies, Institutes, Smae based Associations?

Supplementary:- Has anyone got an accurate figure and picture of,

1). Chiropodists,

2). Podiatrists.

3). Academia/Educational turn out of new ones, how many Chiropodists/Podiatrists per year, perhaps?


3. Is these areas doing Chiropody/podiatry in the UK.?

1). Have we still got an underground of unqualified people doing nails and corns in dark and poorly lit streets at night?

2). Nurses, Assistant Podiatrist, Social type services, etc.?

3). Some that I might have missed that you know of?

Regards,

Colin.

PS. Some questions obvious, some not so obvious!

PPS. Please back up your Post with reason and fact where ever possible!

PPPS. Sorry Admin. but I think your suggestion might just work! Just keep your hand on the 'PULL THE PLUG BUTTON.' Do you know we haven't even tried to insult a Welshman or a Scotsman but there is time yet?

 

Colin
Guess you had to take up the offer, it was very tempting.
This is a very cheap posting copied from a reply on that unspeakable site but if you pick out the bits it may be relevant.

Admin was this a serious subject? or are you fed up with our little country's petty politics?

XXXXXX
Are you really confused?

I am sure you are totally aware of how you have achieved the status of Chiropodist /Podiatrist, titles now protected by law registered and regulated by the HPC.

State registration was historically a very similar situation. At it’s introduction there was a ‘grandparenting’ period but then done by examination not self-accreditation. Certain courses of training were automatically accepted, I think those supervised by the Society and Institute.

Following that closure date only full time courses run by colleges of Further Education qualified for State Registration. The qualification at that time was the Diploma in Podiatric Medicine, DpodM. (Colleges of FE issued diplomas)
When FE changed and Polytechnics were allowed to issue degrees the qualification moved towards a degree and then the final honours degree.

Following the introduction of State Registration the ‘private’ trainers continued to produce ‘fully qualified chiropodists’.

We now see a repeat of that process, though now those previously unregistered chiropodists are now titled FHPs.

The whole process is a mess.

IMO if FHPs had not arisen the State registered sector would have rapidly assimilated the grandparented sector (there ain’t that many of you) and peace would have reigned.

Instead the creation of FHPs and the support given to them by the governing bodies merely entrenches previously held prejudges

It will be interesting to see how the politics of the grandparented work out, for the previously SRCh nothing has changed. As stated in the original posting it is not illegal to use the title SRCh , the HPC would prefer we did no, (they also discourage the use of HPC registered, preferring to rely on the protected titles).

Sorry a great opportunity was offered to our profession which we have screwed up.

IMO any HPC member who supports or associates with FHPs are cutting their own throats.

YYYYYYYY

You make some good points but I think if we can approach this thread without understandable emotion it may be possible to yet again try to get a meaningful debate. The Alliance is not the same organisation as Smae, in fact it is a breakaway group from Smae. Although it is difficult to establish the size of membership of the representative bodies a reasonable estimate for the Alliance is 500, SOCP 9000, Institute 2000 BChA with BFHA 3,500, AchPU 500.
It would be excellent if representatives of the various bodies could confirm/dispute these figures. The current number of HPC reg Pods is approx. 11400. Do your own sums.

 

Here's an outsider's view. I find the UK threads a bit like reality TV. You watch hoping to experience the joy of schadenfreud (officially defined as getting pleasure from other people's misfortune; unoffically defined as the pleasure you get watching two mercedes benz collide).

I don't mean to imply that I enjoy the obvious disharmony and friction that seems to be occuring in the UK over isues of registration/professional status - but damn it all, there is the voyeur in all of us.

The problem is, as Craig cogently states, the arguments soon disintergrate into personal tirades directed at individuals. At that point, I look away, saddened to see my peers and colleagues so distressed as to resort to this strategy.

I believe there is much to be learned from the situation in the UK in regard to the development of our profession on a global level. Our peers in the USA have their battles with insurers and government bodies. Australians are now looking to integrate Podiatry Assistants into the practice of foot care, and have ongoing issues with status and privileges. In Europe the profession is emerging, but does not yet have a strong independent foundation to fall back on. We all can learn from each other. (Oh God, I am beginning to sound like a Miss World candidate - yes, all I want is World Peace).

Unfortunately some responses I have received when posting on UK forums have been heated enough to make me very wary of further participation. Or, to put it less politely, really miffed! I guess when your ego and livelihood are on the line, the limbic system takes over. But, for the sake of decency, let's engage the higher cortical structures.

cheers,

Felicity

 

The Break aways, aways, aways? (You might think I'm Joking!)?

Hi Bob,

A useful one as usual and please, please don't take offence but I don't think Smae.'s hands are soiled in any way in this!

My memory of it is that the Association's Hierarchy decided to join the Association with the Institute. It was the Associations hierarchy who initiated this, not the Institute! A large number of ordinary members disagreed with their Representatives in their AGM. and it didn't happen. A group of Association members then moved over and joined the Institute with a fair proportion of the Old Hierarchy! I never knew numbers who did this and that, and had no real reason to ask!

Next, West Midland Branch of the Association with there own members in the New Hierarchy gave the impression to the rest in the Association that they were having a take over bid? This was blocked by the New Association's Hierarchy! The West Midland Branch promptly marched down the road with their followers and supporters and formed the Alliance! A little later perhaps?

The Association I believe is still in existence? I take my hat off to them, most would have rolled over and expired years ago if it had happened to them! Beside Bob, with care please, the Association had a good LIBEL clause written into their yearly Insurance, (After all this lot they need it!)!

My transfer to the Institute was a personal matter. Nothing to do with what the Association stood for or did not stands for!!! Living through the above tale would probably put Coronation Street to shame?

Another aside Bob, when you say Association 500 members are you counting those now counted in the Alliance quota? I'm sure someone will enlighten us if it is considered to be important?

I'm sure everyone could not wait for this my latest one!!! But Smae. could only be an innocent bystander here unless you know something I don't, and I wouldn't put it past you Bob!!! Even I need to be careful, even now to try to separate fact from fiction here? There was plenty of this and that flying then and could be again? Probably now you can see why I still can have a certain sympathy with the FHP., (And the Association!)! The crass Postings by my friend and yours, 'little tony,' could have caused long term damage to the FHP. cause? And probably lost it my support for a start! No wonder there are LOCKED Threads in this Arena!

Who needs the opposition to shoot you in the foot when your friends do it for you!

Regards,

Colin.

 

Hi Bob

Just for your information

No it isn't !!

It's actually Craig Paynes last comments in closing a thread on THIS SITE.

The unspeakable one I believe had it started by a banned member from this site (in a different context) and it is also running on David Hollands orthopeds site and started by me for opinion purposes among the members there.

I have spoken to you privately many times about unity within the profession and how much this "attitude" problem that seems to exist on all the UK forums is damaging the profession and the professionalism for us all. How come I can talk to you , john McCall and Mark Russell and many others with reason good humour and agreement on many issues, yet as soon as we try to put that reason in print many times personal abuse from others starts ??

Felicity came out with the proper terminology for the created situation

which I believe posters like "liitle tony" get great pleasure from the situation they create and also do great damage to the public perception of the profession ( yes this site is viewed by anyone that wants to look!!) and drive a wedge deeper into the divide between fragmentation and unity.

Just my thoughts

Cheers

Derek

 

Hi Derek,

Tell you the truth I had no idea what Bob was on about in the first three or four lines of his post? Did he think I was copying something from elsewhere???

Cheers,

Colin.

 

Hi Colin

Does "the unspeakable site" give you a clue ??

I haven't bothered to go an look but judging by the PM's I have had from various quarters, it don't take much working out !!

Cheers

Derek

 

Hi Derek,

Yes I have checked it! A rerun of why it's not on here, thank you Admin.

Interesting:- 'little tony' = Anthony Vain-foot and he does not know whether he is 55yrs. of age or 31yrs. of age. But he does live in Manchester he has told us so?

He does know who the hierarchy of the Alliance is! Pity though he might have upset HPC. over all this and I cannot see for the life of me what he has or hoped to gain by it all? Unless any advertising good, bad or indifferent is better than no advertising!

Cheers,

Colin.

PS. Those who are bringing Smae. into the birth of the Alliance in the other place:- Please tell me where you have got this from? Happy to be proved wrong, but it's news to me??? (Derek, you would not be able to answer this question by any chance?).

 

Hi Colin

Nope before I got into podopolitics I'm afraid Sorry

Cheers

Derek

 

Hello Craig

I attach a comment which I posted on David Holland's site in the U.K.

"...it all has to do with insecurity. Approached from the 'political' angle, this means riding my old hobby horse. The profession as a whole threw up the huge opportunity of amalgamating the disparate bodies, achieving functional closure and then obtaining a degree of self determination. Instead, we have the HPC and all that entails, with the result that training bodies are training FHPs 'chiropodists/podiatrists by any other name'. Thus, all the old arguments are re-ignited and those with attenuated frontal lobe function become abusive.
As noted above, the latter can easily be distinguished from professional people by the fact that they never use their own names over their comments.
For myself, I determined long ago never to reply to any post (exceptions prove rules) which did not have the name of the poster added."

Whilst never wishing to stifle debate, I do feel that if posters declined to rise to the bait and refused to answer unattributable remarks, then the U.K would not have to put up with this rather embarrasing situation. More importantly, the land of Shakespeare would not subject our colleagues around the world to the lowest demominator of the English language.

Thanks for your patience.

Bill Liggins

 

No Name:- "No Comment!"

Hi Bill,

I know your above post is addressed to Craig, but may I make the suggestion, why not follow that thought through to it's end!!!

What I mean is why not when confronted with abuse or an unidentified Posting simply submit under it, "No name no comment?" Everyone do it who believes a mark has been overstepped! I do not think it will be to long before this Post would be recognized as one to be isolated and would quickly disappear off the right hand postings column after the initial flurry. Admin. needs the rest you know! He might not need to take a hand quiet so often!

Regards,

Colin.

PS. Also an addition to "No name no comment?" Could be, "This Posting is foul!" "This posting is a foul!"

 

Colin
At last I have confused you as much as you confuse me

I think this is a very good thread to pursue, it is also taking place on That Foot Site, yes the unmentionable place where arguably all the abuse takes place.

I suggest you have a look and feel free to contribute.

PS (in your style) I love Felicities response, my best 'female' pal at Uni has gone down under so if it's good for her the Ozzies are OK with me. It's raining I know nothing about cricket but I think rain is 'good'.

Look forward to DTT translating this for us

Bob

Ref the Smae/ alliance situation that has been corrected on That Foot Site, so my nom de plume is exposed, it was fun while it lasted. Jaque

 

Hi Bob,

Yes I was on the tablets with Jaque too. Good not to take things too personal if possible. We all have are good points and I suppose bad. I'm usually easily confused, that's why I couldn't understand why it was me not you this time, ( No Bob don't try to work it out, it isn't worth it.)???

Regards,

Colin.

 

Hi Bob

No need mate check my profile all my details are there for the world to see

But I will email you and tell you if you really want to know

Be lucky

Cheers

Derek

 

A Nervous Breakdown, perhaps???

HI All,

Don't ask why but a sudden thought came to me, (Unusual perhaps at this time of night?). Just lately and especially if you get someone that is both belligerent and wrong, wrong because he does not agree with you! All the fun and pleasure at answering the Post seems to go straight out of the window!

We English become, just ever so serious! The point must get across and we have to argue with the full force of testosterone, (Do you know the Americans couldn't spell it! Come to think of it neither could I?). I prefer Oestrogen myself? (Now there's a thought or two for you Felicity!). You know, the point that we sit on with anguish in our voices as we expound it? Exposing our inner most beings on the electronic paper up there?

If someone has the nerve to disagree with us, we swot him with something! Or worse I will threaten to sue him, (Whose Sue?).

For those here where English is your second language don't both with this you might just get brain damage! Or worse still you might just be able to follow it? You will most certainly need Counseling if I can remember which way to spell that?

Regards,

Colin.

PS. When the English loose their sense of humour it can turn out very nasty indeed, especially if they have still got their two bowstring fingers attached!

 

Colin
I think you have solved the puzzle.
Perhaps the English style is adversarial, look at our parliament and legal system.
It's great to have an excuse.

 

It's Great to have an excuse?

Hi Bob,

What do you mean, "It's great to have an excuse."

"I am an excuse! To have a humble demeanour around here isn't ease you know?".

Regards,

Colin.

PS. If you think we have trouble read the latest on the USA. Forum and count your blessings!

 

Wow! Craig has "girly like friends" to hide behind. Is this a podopolitical harem Craig? Count me in - I would look good behind a translucent veil. But there is no translucency in this forum - only transparent, accountable and reasonable discussion. And that is why I enjoy it. Sure, tempers get hot. And to our dear friend C Bain - punctuation can sometimes be problematic. But that makes for vigorous and stimulating debate. I agree that sometimes tempers get frayed to the extent that feelings can be hurt. But all in all, the task of moderating a very busy site is particularly well handled by the moderators.

As a lecturer, I very often refer students to this site. There are lots of really interesting ideas being discussed, especially in the controversial field of biomechanics. This is a difficult area to teach, as we cannot afford to be didactic about our theories - they are too labile. The mixture of academic and practice oriented discussion is very valuable. Hylton, in particular, offers plenty of new research articles and findings for perusal - saving me lots of time trawling through the library.

Plaudits for all involved!

cheers,

Felicity (obviously part of Craig's girly fan club. Does the fact that I taught his wife when she was a student make this all too incestuous?)

 

I do not often venture into the UK forum here, but the title of this thread on the home page caught my eye - so I read it and the thread at Thatfootsite linked above. My conclusions:

* "Oh my god", what a bunch of drivel. I am not surprised that Admin has a problem with UK threads if this is anything to go by.

* We are supposed to be professionals. To see someone like this Kite fellow resorting to name calling and physical threats just shows their calibre, irrevalance and confirms whatever reason Admin had for banning them (talk about having a big chip on their shoulder!). If this is typical of the UK, then the profession is in deep trouble. Please tell me its not typical.

* Admin - keep up the outstanding job of making this forum diverse and interesting. I can not speak highly of the job well done. I can only imagine what goes on behind the scenes.

* Felicity is funny.

 

Scary site or what!

Actually, many of us in the UK view thatfootsite as a bit of a joke. It's a pity that posters do not always think before they post - certain posts must give an awfully bad impression of podiatrists to those of the general public who find their way onto the site.

My observations (and this is a huge generalisation, but shared by several colleagues) are that the people who post stupid, irrelevant or rude posts on thatfootsite are simply low in the UK Podiatry Profession pecking order.

A good forum must be moderated. This forum is run really well, and moderated at just the right level.
Nice one Craig and team!

Regards,
davidh

 

The Referee, who is always first Target!

Hi Davidh and Admin.,

A Forum is no different from other parts of life! Rules, norms and refereeing,(Policing), is the call of the day!

Whether a Post is stupid, irrelevant or like some plain pathetically boring, right or wrong provided it is within the Rules, good mannered, and does not break the law of the land good for them and you! We live in a free speech area here, (Even if someone is threatening to tear Magna Carta up elsewhere!), for example:- "Cry, Freedom," Then we the English hung drawn and quartered him! Just because he was a Scotsman killing Normans for example!

Now I could list a host of reasons why the above is not a good one. Apart from deliberately in some cases leaving something out, it is not to clear! For instant, "Brave Heart," without an explanation?

But, but, but who should be making these decisions. The common a garden senior alien? Or the Administrate or Moderator?

Some times a Post on here never mind the other place can be like a polite football match where war has been declared. I have one of the first order on this Forum who could be described as a right puritanical twit!!! But this does not need a Admin. or a Moderator until I name him or make it obvious to all. Not because of the description I have given him but because it breaks the rules, (It doesn't matter that it is true or not). Here the Admin. or Moderate is expected to protect us from ourselves. In the other places anything goes!

I expect people to stand up for themselves and as I say the intellectually correct can be B***dy boring! If I want to read a chapter from a text book I will read a text book. If high intellectuals want to mix with other high intellectuals I would suggest they should form a new Forum with highly restrictive qualified entrance to that Forum!

I know I'm right so what is the problem, could it be a closed mind, (No it sounds much better the other way MINED)!

I personally am very happy with Admin. and the Team! I don't really want to be bothered finding out who they all are? If something goes wrong I expect to have it put right! I haven't been let down yet! I do not need a pea-brain to work it out, and provide they, the pea-brains, do not purposely offend I'm perfectly prepared and happy to except them too!

In electrical engineering in the dim and distant past it used to be said, "Are yes my boss, a doctor of electrical engineering could not even wire a light! But designing a complex control system, he was brilliant!"

Off the subject well, OK. but not all of us find a corn or a toe-nail divorced from life to be the most wonderful God given Subject under the Sun! Sorry Felicity but there I go again?!?

Admin. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, and if you get something wrong Admin. I will also howl with self-righteous puritanical indignation! And duck!

Regards,

Colin.

PS. Warning, to protect your mental health, keep away from the otherplace. Me, it doesn't matter anymore after the places I have been in, it's far to late!!!

 

Hi Craig

Then perhaps it would be appropriate for you to do the same and put the matter to bed ??

Cheers

Derek